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Building an E-Boat

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operose View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 August 2007 at 4:42pm

Hello,

two quick questions if anybody can indulge me;

Where can I get hold of a set of decent plans for a late model E-Boat, i.e. with the armoured bridge?  I've searched the internet and come across www.prinzeugen.com, which is a formidable resource, but doesn't have plans available of the quality I require.

I remember reading somewhere on this forum, somebody remarking that, perhaps one day, somebody might build a replica of a Fairmile D.  This was prompted by a Fairmile D (which had been abandoned on a river somewhere) being finally broken up rather than restored.  This put me in mind of the following questions;
> Has anybody ever set about building a full sized replica of a military power boat?
> Purely out of interest, does anybody know just how much it would cost to build, say, an E-Boat today?
> If you were willing to forgoe historical accuracy and use modern techniques and materials, would it cost any less?
> What would the build time be?
> How much did an E-Boat cost to build during the war?

I'd be quite surprised if anybody knew the definitive answers to all of these, but any educated guesses would be fascinating if you have the time...

Best Regards

O

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Pioneer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pioneer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2007 at 5:56pm

Hello Operose

Welcome aboard. Your two questions spread out to a few more and I doubt if any will be answered defintively. A proposed "D" type build could be a proposition as detailed plans are still available - the cost would range from 'astronomic' (several millions -if actually paying for Artisans and Shipwrites etc) to very expensive (if having that expertise available for 'free' - but relying on UK prices for the hardwoods involved - if you could obtain them) - the figures would certainly be in the several hundred thou I would guess. I would also guess that detailed plans are still available of the later Mk's of E-Boat I would suggest that you trace the Schnellbootwaffe web site (I did spot it once & I shall try and dig it out) .

I would guess that your quest may raise some pertinent answers here - even if only to shoot me down in flames  

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johnk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2007 at 6:00pm

Hi Operose,

Welcome aboard, some very interesting questions raised, I am one of the guys into the Fairmile D topic. With regard to an E-boat, well, there is the hull of S-130 down in Cornwall now, details under S-130 on this forum, hopes are that a group will be formned to restore it to operational order, ie they have a hull but it will need new engines plus fit out, estimate of cost has been given as some 4 million pounds!. Regards building from scratch and using modern methods to produce the "look" of the vessel, well, this has been done many times with replica sailing craft of course, cost wise, well, I would only guess that it would be a less, as the orgional methods were very labour intensive, using a lot of highly skilled people, albeit in wartime, wages not as they are now and funds from the government. Of course we have a few excellent examples of coastal craft up and running ie MTB 102, soon HDML Medusa, MGB 81, who of course deserve support and help. However, I do feel as I have said before here, that the D is a special case and deserves looking at seriously.

JohnK

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clive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2007 at 8:43pm

Hi,

"If you were willing to forgoe historical accuracy and use modern techniques and materials, would it cost any less?"

Take a mould off S-130 and build a fiberglass one, you need never take it out of the water and if the gel was grey no need to paint! - loads less money (not much cheapness)

Is the 'D' more desireable because there are none? we still have 2 'C' types, will we want them when they are gone or perhaps a 72' whaleback?



Edited by clive
masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/
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northeastuser View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northeastuser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2007 at 9:54pm

If the cash were available for someone to contemplate a E-boat can I suggest that they stick with the composite construction but go with a welded frame instead of a riveted one. Anything else would simply be a prop. The biggest cost of construction would probably be labour.

Re the D boat. That class of vessel was our answer to the e-boat and was the biggest and most heavily armed of our costal forces. Arguably the top of our development. The best of the best, I can understand the fascination.

A replica D boat would be helped in the accuracy stakes if someone with foresight was to save the remains of what is left of LRRC 030.



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operose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote operose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2007 at 10:55pm

Hello all,

  many thanks for your thoughts thus far - they make for interesting reading :)  Armed with the term "Schnellbootwaffe", I managed to track down these two sites; http://www.pt-boat.com/ who has some CAD drawings of e-boat frames and http://www.christian-schmidt-fachbuchhandlung.de/product_inf o.php?products_id=2519&language=en&osCsid=7b5c3c43e3 f8bec387f3e0e64434a226, which is a 2-sheet, 1:25 scale plan for a late model e-boat, although you have to pay some 25 euro's for the pleasure...

   Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by composite construction?  I've been to look at S130 down near Plymouth - it's a massive boat and has various dubious patches on the hull...4 million sounds an incredible sum though...surely you could just build an entirely new boat for that!?

  The thing that confuses me, though, is what do the owners of these big motorboats like MTB-102 and MGB-81 *do* with them?  Do they charter them or hire them out for film work or something?  I would have thought that their running costs compared to the income the generate must be painfully disproportionate?  I personally think that building a replica of a Fairmile D would be a culturally laudable pursuit, but what would you do with it once you'd built it?

  Does anybody have any more details or pictures of LRRC 030?

Many thanks,

Best Regards,

O

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northeastuser View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northeastuser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2007 at 1:29am

Im sure there are many that use this forum and even more who dont that have toyed with the idea of constructing a new D boat. I doubt many would come forward and admit it for fear of ridicule. ( feel free to PM me and we will form a self help group!)

What to do with the finished vessel? Well it would have to generate an income to become self sustainable. Other than that. Well I guess invite your friends for a BBQ offshore!! What ever you decide to do with it I suspect that constructing the hull would be the cheap bit!

030 is the boat featured elsewhere on this forum burned out at Chatham. A Sad sight. I believe she will be cleared away soon due to re-development in the area.

Composite construction is where the frames are built of steel ( or aluminium in the case of the German S130) with a wood hull bolted or screwed to the frames. I seem to remember reading that they were planked with Scottish oak before the war! The Cutty Sark is a classic example of composite construction.

I suspect that the reason for the high cost of the restoration of the S130 is that it will involve de-planking the vessel to enable the frames to be repaired. Very expensive and time consuming.

It makes you wonder how much historical content the re-built hull will contain.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote operose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2007 at 11:29am

BBQ off shore :)

I met a chap once who'd bought an amphibious tank and did just that off the beach near Brighton :)

It would certainly be a niche in the market not yet exploited; "Off Shore BBQ aboard authentic WWII Power Boat - 1000.00 a head! (bring own sausages)"

I've looked at the pictures of 030 now...what a loss!  Amazing how quickly the hull has deteriorated to practically nothing.  There's a boat with a fairly similar hull-shape moored in Penzance, though (or there was a few months ago when I visited)...does anybody know what it is?

I think the question of historical content is a pertinent one; I've read of "restorations" entailing new planking, frames, decks and superstructure - is that really a restoration?  It's tempting to go to the HLF and say "I want to build a WWII boat from scratch, will you fund it, please?", as the end result would, arguably, be the same as a typical restoration...if only there were more hours in the day, I'd do it myself :)

Again, thanks for indulging me,

O

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2007 at 11:10am

Hi all,

 

Just read all the above, all good stuff, all really answered above, MTB 102 operate as a charity, covering costs of running from donations and hard un-paid work!, MGB 81 is up for sale last I heard, was part of a commercial chartering company. This discussion is very relavent to my other interest the paddle steamer Medway Queen, we are in interesting talks with the lottery fund on methods of re-build and historic content! don't get me started on that here!. I agree of course re the D and the remains of 030, but equally re Clive and the C etc, if there are only two left, are  they as houseboats being used or abandoned?, then this has been said before I know but..should BMPT and us and any one else interested, try and get something done, before we lose the last of kind, like 030, understand it needs "someone" and it would have to be lead by others than me, but would pitch in if given a plan. Await comments,

JohnK

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clive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2007 at 11:49am

I think the two 'c' are houseboats.

John, how about the P.S. Ryde? she would make a nice houseboat. I assume she is way beyond repair but how did the MQ compare when the work was started and are you allowed to tell us how much 'cash' she has cost so far (never mind the free man hours)

masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/
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