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MTB 506

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northeastuser View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northeastuser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2007 at 1:43pm

its lovely and sunny here. just waiting for a surveyor to turn up. .if anyone fancies trip out i have rented a small two bed flat near the boat yard. .just people watching at the mo. in a bar by the harbour...coke in hand...lovely and sunny.. sliema is a posh part of Malta. Everyone is into high fashion. High heels short skirts. Dam i know where i want to retire now! The yachts here are about 150 ft long on average. Well have to go.. oh yea im working hard as well!!

(if my wife reads this, its hell here i hate every minute of it. .i wish i was home!!)

 

Have made room in pm box..



Edited by northeastuser
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tramontana View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tramontana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2007 at 5:02pm

If you are able to bring 506 home you will need to leave the added  keel in position because as you will not be getting it on the plane due to the hull condition the boat will be travelling sideways especially with the top hamper she is presently carrying, planing hulls are useless at low speeds as they have no directional stability that's why people put keels on them to give them directional stability otherwise you use twice as much fuel and unless you have an autopilot you will have arms like Bombardier Billy Wells by the time you get home, on most of the fast R.A.F. launches the slowest ahead speed was 10kts below that it's a matter of throttle use. Has she been fitted with larger rudders? I hope that things get better as you have put a lot of time and effort into the project but at the moment from what I have read you will not be allowed to take her to sea, not without a lot of work being done to her beforehand, but take heart 1502 was in a bit of a state and just look at her now

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clive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2007 at 6:52pm

 Hi Tramontana,

I have do disagree with the planing hulls being useless at slow speed statment.  we took MASB 32 out and hardly noticed the wheel being turned, she has small rudders. unless she is the exception to the rule.

 

masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/
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Christian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 8:49am

Hi Clive

Funny thing is, you're both right. I don't have the answer, except to comment that even 32 is a pig in a crosswind (her rudders have been enlarged), whereas Gibel-Tarik with her round-bilge hull form, huge rudders and keel is impossible to keep in a straight line in flat calm weather, yet she rides out really bad weather in a way you'd have to experience to believe.

By the way, I got Phil's reply to the "S" question;

 "S" 32- I've never really thought about it before, however I think that when completed MA/SB 22 -39 were put over to Naval A/SR duties with the exception of three boats allocated for "Special Duties". I believe that 32 was one of these special duty boats and numbered S 32. Pure guesswork, never seen it in print

 

 

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clive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 10:34am

Hi, Christian,

 I have replied in the  MASB topic, not wanting to go off on the wrong thread!

masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/
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Magic Fingers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 8:22pm
We have just removed the false keel (fin) from MTB102 as it was causing too many problems on the cradle when slipped. Now back in use without it and not feeling any different. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the false keel was added after initial trials to partially overcome the bias on the helm with a three engine installation, ie two props turning one way and one the other. The idea was dropped on later versions so I guess it was not worth fitting. Therefore with a two engine set up such things may not have been fitted in the first place. 102 has always gone with the wind when she feels like it.

Edited by Magic Fingers
If it ain't broke don't fix it!
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tramontana View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tramontana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 9:17pm
Didn't Vospers fit a centre rudder to aid slow speed handling on some of their boats? I Know which boat I would rather have Christian, after spending some time involved with powerboat racing it's a great feeling of speed even when 60knts was fast but very exhausting and hard on the knees and back, I  ended up in traction for three months! H.d.m.L's were as you know designed by a yachty who knew his stuff on vessel's running at a slower speed.
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S R Wilson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S R Wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 2:50pm

Hi All,

The speculation in Malta was that the additional woodwork was fitted at the same time as the Turbines were fitted and the engine mount were made enormous. In my limited experiance all hard chine boats are prone to "go with the wind" if they are not going like the wind amd that little quirk can be embarrasing if you don't watch for it.

With 506 the upper works are like a conservatory so will have to come off but for the moment provide something for the wind to get hold of. Bearing all other things in mind the journey home may not be the most enjoyable boat trip anyone has ever done.

SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.

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northeastuser View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northeastuser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 4:45pm
 

Hi all The main problem with the AMBRA was the removal of the centre sections of frames.that has alowed the keel to slowly lift into the bottem of the hull, not sure but there may also be slight drop of the hull around the props.once i have the engine room hach off and centre engine removed i will try and poste some pictures to show you what i mean.extra floors added to replace them have missed the point of the loads on this boat and have just snaped.unless i can find some way of lifting the boat and jacking the keel down( i know ,no way) i will just have to replace the missing structure and lock her into her new shape until we get home.

Was talking to kevin of captain morgan today and he said they sold another vessel, it was so bad they left harbour with a escort to act as lifeboat, and the floors fell out of her once she started working at sea, so they just hoped into the other boat as she sank!!toredo worm aparently.there is evidence of it on ambra as well.

The added keel will probibly have to come off as it is covering the join in the keel where the planks notch into. So no way to make the seem watertight with it in place.I intend to just chisel it away in the areas i am working on..then sort the remains out after.only problem is the sheer amount of bolts holsing it place.

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jimmy p View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimmy p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 11:55pm

 What we need is a set of plans as she will be totally dry in the next couple of days. We can then work out how far she's moved/bowed/splayed ect from midframe measurements & a few diagonal to keel measurements. Think jacking her on the slip is going to mean a lot of equipment & manpower. Depending on Billy's sums then i reckon we brace her as is for the return & then soak her timbers & let her settle back into shape on a cradle.

 That said they were first built by guys who didnt have degrees ect & just knew a thing or two about timber to understate it(wish my dad had taught me as much about wooden boats). The simple thing though is time & money. If that can be found then all of them can be repaired!! I know we dont have a war department budget & 10,000 shipwrights at our disposal but we are saving the few straggling survivors not building the atlantic fleet.

 We have the advantage of being able to get a set of plans sent from anywhere in a day or just calling anywhere in the world in seconds for advice! These guys just did what they knew building them & had no idea of what the combat stresses would add to the strains of seakeeping. Basically we can call in the global experts at a moments notice rather than asking your father for advice.

 That said. I think 506 will have to stop in gib for fuel. If thats the case i'd like to buy hector a few beers for his remarkable work on old boats & maybe pick up a few tips! If he can do it in his 70's+ then like i say"time, money & a little knowledge"

 Sorry to rant guys, I'm upset!! Just confirmed that lewina was siezed by the mooring owner & torched. A friend did his best to save her before that, but was ignored & we've lost another to make way for plastic boats. Anyone who can help with my safehaven idea for these boats please get in touch. Half the survivors will be lost this year alone if nothing is done!! I wont talk about the one i'm thinking of buying because of the sheer scale of restoration makes a replica more viable but if i can & nobody else steps up then what other option has she got??

 Got one last idea for a big effort but gotta run it by a few people & check viabilaty, legal issues ect asap. Could backfire if i'm wrong & destroy a few more so treading carefully but if it checks out then i put the idea to a vote after explaining all pro's & cons.

 We save them now though or we spend a while contemplating how we could've saved them. Nobody cared for lancasters until there was only one airworthy & 3 statics left, 4million to put the best static back in the air so go figure. The sad fact is that we act now or not at all

A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money
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