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MTB 653

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Category: Boats (In alphabetical order)
Forum Name: Motor Torpedo Boats
Forum Description: Discussion on Motor Torpedo Boats
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=282
Printed Date: 24 March 2019 at 2:47am


Topic: MTB 653
Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Subject: MTB 653
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 7:22pm

Hi

I'm hoping that someone may be able to help me out with a bit of a mystery regarding MTB 653.

I run an archive website dedicated to preserving images and personal memories of The Norfolk Broads. Amongst some pictures sent to me recently were two of a an ex Admiralty boat which has been identified as being MTB 653 dating from 1951. There were sevral old MTBs and MGBs which were converted for use as houseboats on the Broads after the war, of the pictures I have seen of the named ones nothing corresponds with these pictures so she is a bit of a mystery.

The main mystery concerns the fact that the first picture puts her on the Northern rivers of the Broads ..... this is a very large vessel to have possibly been up there as there a several low bridges to negotiate! All referrences there are to these converted vessels were on the Southern Broads. The second picture was taken in the same year moored in Norwich but has obviously not been converted ... are these in fact the same boat?

The info I have so far has come from fellow members of the Norfolk Broads Forum but I now seem to have drawn a bit of a blank. The suggestion was put forward that it was a boat called Morning Flight which belonged to a boatyard owner - which is how I found this forum through doing a Google search which turned up the fact that Morning Flight was in fact MGB 56.

I have found a little bit of the history of MTB 653 through Google which has told me that she sailed under both British and Norwegian flags during WW2 but I cannot find out anything about her history after the war. I know that a number of the Broads boatyards built vessels for the admiralty duing WW2 - was MTB 653 one of those and she returned home?

Will try and post the two photos I have below - hope that someone may be able to shed some light for me.

Carol




Replies:
Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 7:23pm

Hi

Picture number 2 which was also from 1951 and at Norwich:



Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 8:33pm

Hi Carol,

The boat in your pictures is undoubtedly a Dog boat. Fairmile D. There are none of these boats surviving in this country and it is thought there are none left at all. Other contributers to the forum have more information at their fingertips than I but from memory she was about 117 feet long was powered by 4 v12 Packard engines of about 1200 horse power each which gave a top speed of about 25 knots. Displacement was about 60 tons and as can be seen from your photos in addition to torpedoes she was also heavily armed with various caliber guns. The dog boat was the first British boat designed as a joint MGB and MTB .

There will be other posts, if they contradict with mine then they are more likely correct!

Regards



-------------
SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 8:52pm

Hi Carol and Sentley,

 

Indeed, what great pictures Ds indeed, (sorry) but as Sentley said, none are believed to survive now so great to see pictures of them. Apart from being a bit of a D nut so to speak, can't offer anymore info but I do hope through this forum you get more on them. Many thanks for posting, all the best,

 

Regards

 

John



Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 8:58pm

Hi Carol and John,

I think that the 2 photos are indeed the same boat but only on the basis that it would be surprising if there were 2 Ds in such close proximity.

MGB 56 is an entirely separate craft being much shorter lighter and faster  than the Dog boat.

Regards



-------------
SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 9:37pm

Hi

Many thanks for the responses so far. That is a real shame to know that none of this particular class exist anymore. As I said, I had found a little information about her wartime history by doing a google search - I found a couple of references to her during 1944. On Feb 13th she was part of a convoy of three British ships which sunk a couple of Norwegian cargo/passeneger ships by mistake - at this time she was flying a Norwegian flag and had a Norwegian crew. On August 19th 1944 she was again part of a convoy of three British ships which sunk the German torpedo boat S-57 off of the Croatian coast.

We recently lost one of the classic Broads converted ex Admiralty boats "The Golden Galleon" which was an Fairmile B (ML 162) which had seen many years of service carrying passengers for day trips along the River Yare from Gt Yarmouth. She had been lying at Reedham, very sadly neglected for many years. Despie numerous efforts to save her, she was deemed a hazzard and beyond salvage and was sadly towed away and broken up at the end of last year.

MTB 653 certainly remained on the Broads until at least the early 1970s - the picture below was one which I found on a search and I believe dates from around 1972. She was, again, moored at Norwich at the time and was beginning to show some signs of neglect.

Thanks again - Carol




Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 9:54pm

Is there any information available as to her eventual fate? Perhaps its too much to hope that her remains lie somewhere quiet and undisturbed? If so I bags first look!!!!

  Where abouts was that picture took?



Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 10:07pm

Hi

Unfortunately there is absolutely no information about what happened to her or anything about her history whilst she was on the Norfolk Broads so far. She is a complete mystery which is very strange given she was obviously there for at least 20 years!

As I said, I am a member of a forum dedicated to the Norfolk Broads which has many members who have lived and worked in the area for many, many years but no one seems to remember her. As part of my research into the history of boating on the Broads I have gone through countless old Blakes and Hoseasons boating brochures and there were several ex Admiralty boats which were converted and hired out to holiday makers after the war and, indeed, up until the 1960s and possibly 1970s - this particular vessel does not appear to be listed amongst them though so far as I can tell.

You can read the information that we have uncovered so far, and possible suggestions put forward here if any of it will help:

http://the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=22&Topic=7692 - http://the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=22&am p;Topic=7692

Carol

 



Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 10:19pm

Hi Carol

A couple more pictures for you, also from the internet;

MTB 653 in 1971;

 

 

Your picture No 2 is not the same boat, suggest more likely MTB 740;

 

This picture of another sister-ship during wartime gives a good idea of the heavy armament and how it made them sit much lower in the water;

 

Rgds, Christian.



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 11:13pm

Hi Carol,

 Great pictures, I can't see how the 'D' could ever be on the northern rivers as the bridges at yarmouth are lower than Acle, and that is 13' max.(unless she was sunk through) I have read the threads on the norfolk-broads-forum and if  she was in Horning she would be be 'pointing' towards horning next to one of the windpumps which has been rebuilt.

  I will show the fairmile pictures to my dad tomorrow, he left oulton broad in 1958 and remembers almost everything which went on around the rivers from between the war and then.

 It is good to see such a large warboat in Horning, It is reassureing to see that one can fit, rumor has it there may be another soon...

as for  the replies on 'the other' forum they are correct re '56 and Ron Ashby and the very low rail bridges.

ps. welcome aboard!



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 10:39am

Well done Christian.

I knew someone would have the answer. If the remains of 653 or 740 come to light I have no doubt John k will be first in the que!!!



-------------
SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 11:04am

My wife and I have been talking about this for a while. we want to take a holiday on the broads this year. Can anyone recommend a family boat I can hire out. Not a new expensive one lol.



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 11:24am

Hi Northeastuser,

 I recon you better pm me re your holiday requirements!!

As for my Dad remembering everything, he can remember two houseboats but not their names!



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 11:50am

I now have the names of the Oulton Broad houseboats (from Norfolk-broads-forum)

'Foynes' (MTB)

'Blue lagoon' (MGB) at Pye marine

'young Jim' at Newsons

All of the above long since gone.



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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 12:17pm

Hi

There was also Gray Malkin at Brundall - picture below from 1970 Brochure.

There still seems to be a lot of confusion over this. Someone is still convinced that the boat in the first (and third) pictures which I posted on here is in fact "Morning Flight".  Christian - many thanks for the photos - so we may indeed be looking at two different boats which is very interesting.

This has all got me very intrigued and I would really like to discover more about the history of all of the ex Admiralty boats which ended up on the Broads as there does seem to be very little properly recorded information about them. I have a scanned copy of  the Hoseasons brochure page for 1956 which has pictures of "Foynes" and "Blue Lagoon" but I don't think it is of good enough quality to be able to post the pictures on here ...... leave it with me and I shall try!

Thank you all once again

Carol



Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 12:30pm

That looks ever so much like a dog boat to me. Christian,JohnK, what do you think.

If that photo is from a 1970 brochure is there still any evidence of her existance now and if so where is she and in what condition?

Also I thought it was established that Mornig Flight was an MGB,(whaleback) and was in fact MGB56 or have I got that wrong.

 



-------------
SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 1:01pm


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 1:22pm

 Thats what i thought about MGB56.

Looks like a whaleback on these (at least whats left of one)

Sorry about pics, best i've got



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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 2:17pm

My take on Grey Malkin is that she was a 69ft Higgins MGB.

See

http://www.bmpt.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90&PN=2 - http://www.bmpt.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90&PN=2

I'll see if I can find out more.



Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 3:39pm

Have to admit the chine lines on the photo of the Higgins boat and Gray Malkin are very similar and now knowing Gray Malkin is much shorter than a dog boat and also now I look the name is spelt in an American way, which may be coincidental, I am inclined to go with Christian's assesment.

Just proves your never to old to learn. 



-------------
SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: rozm2
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 5:10pm
 So is that possibly what this boat is (sorry it's not on the broads but looks similar?)


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 5:34pm

Oh yes indeedy;

They were taken over by the War Dept and used as Target Towing Launches (hence the spotting tower) after the Navy had utilised them as MASB/MGBs.

Do you know more (name, date and location) about her?

Do you have the full-size image?

Rgds, Christian.

  



Posted By: rozm2
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 6:58pm
Not sure of the exact dates but she was my Grandad's boat, probaby circa 1960, he had her down in Fowey (Cornwall), at the time she was called Ginchy (I believe) and she had 2 hudson invader engines in, which all worked well but one had 'preserving oil' in which resulted in a big end going just out of fowey so they turned back and he took all the bits off it and left instructions for it to be disposed of, though he did see it being used as accomodation a few years later, I've got a copy of the original photograph, I can e-mail you a scan if you like?


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 7:20pm

Hi

The confusion over the identity of Morning Flight on the Norfolk Broads forum has now been resolved and all parties are in agreement that she was indeed MGB 56 .... I'm hoping to have a picture of her sent to me later. My thanks to Clive for his help !

I am still working on the assumption that the first picture I posted was MTB 653. Christian, your picture of the second MTB at Norwich that you think may be MTB 740 looks to have been taken at around the same time, and in the same location as my picture. I wonder if she possibly just came in for decommissioning and did not remain on the Broads ??

I have managed to scan the photo-copied page of the 1956 Hoseasons brochure which showed pictures of two of the boats which were at Oulton Broad at that time. The quality is not great but the first picture is of "Blue Lagoon" (listed as being a 60ft ex-MGB) and the second is "Foynes" (listed as being a 72ft ex-MTB) ...... the lengths listed in the brochure may not be entirely reliable!!

Carol

 



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 7:27pm


-------------
masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 7:41pm
I cant seem to post theese pictures with any kind of quality If anyone wants to have a go i'll email them (if I can)!

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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 7:42pm

Hi

Morning Flight - MGB 56



Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 9:08pm

Hi Carol

I am grilling my friend Phil Simons for more information for you, in the meantime Blue Lagoon was certainly a British Power Boat Co "Whaleback", and entirely possible she was an MGB (otherwise she could have also have been a Motor Anti/Submarine Boat or RAF High Speed Launch, the hulls were all identical) . She had had a remarkably similar conversion to the boat photographed at Woodbridge in 1980 and 1988 by Mark in the "Where Are Those Boats Now" topic. These boats came in two lengths, 63 or 70ft (e.g. MGB56), so it's likely she was 63ft although I've heard (from Ron Young) that a popular modification was to shorten them a little to cut out rot at the transom (as per HSL 2548 apparently) so she may have been 60ft at the time of the photo. Foynes was a "2-tube" Vosper MTB (the later 4-tube boats had flush decks) their hulls measured 70ft but had transom-hung rudders which would indeed have brought them up to an LOA of 72ft. There's not many of either type left I'm afraid.

It is entirely possible you are correct about MTB 740, hopefully Phil will let us know more.

Rgds, Christian. 



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 10:14pm

The more I see of these whalebacks the more I am starting to think of them as one of the most beautiful looking vessels ever built.



Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 7:57am

Have to agree there,

 For a fighting vessel theyr the marylin monroe of the boat world.

Sadly most are also long dead



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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:09pm

Hi

Christian - many thanks for the info so far and also for trying to uncover more for me - it is greatly appreciated!  I have had a look at the "Where Are Those Boats Now" thread on here .... you mentioned that the Woodbridge MGB photographed in the 80s by Mark had a remarkably similar conversion to Blue Lagoon - is there any possibility that they could be the same boat ?  I have no information at present as to when Blue Lagoon left the Broads but it certainly wouldn't have been much of a trip out of Lowestoft and down the coast to Woodbridge. Is it known how long marks MGB had been there?

Northeastuser and JimmyP .... I have to say that I tend to prefer boats that are made of wood and preferably by one of the classic Broads boatyards, but I do have to admit that MGB 56 was an absolute beauty!        

Carol

                                  



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:20pm

Ahh

sorry jimmy

    I have to disagree there. I never did think much of M Monroe. I was very privileged to see much better curves this morning when I woke up! Im sure Mrs M had a very tragic life however I prefer women with a bit more ‘up top’ e.g. brains. The term gormless springs to mind!

Sorry !



Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:27pm

Hi Carol

Not impossible, but unlikely I think as she would have had to have had her portholes neatly planked back over. Let's see what Philip (Coastal Forces Craft Historian) comes back with, he has masses of files with all the answers in somewhere!

p.s. The BPB Co craft were double-diagonal mahogany planked and built in Hythe.

Rgds, Christian. 



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:35pm

God I have just read back my last post. I haven’t been that sexist in years!!!



Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:37pm
NEU Beware the truth will find you out.

-------------
SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:48pm

I don’t mind the truth finding me out just as long as it doesn’t tell the wife!!



Posted By: S R Wilson
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 4:08pm

That what I like to see, someone who is just as affraid of his wife as I am of mine.

Does that make me sexist as well?



-------------
SRW
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy" WSC.



Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 4:42pm

I think the very fact that you’re a man would make you sexist! Well so I get told lol. I would hate for her to find out that she failed to 'change' me lol it would upset her sooo much!



Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 12:29am

Hi Al,

 

Just seen the latest on the above, pity Grey Macklin at 72 feet is not a D which was at 115 feet, but indeed if one was to be found...am awaiting a reply from local port authrity about remains of the D at Chatham, if he responds and says OK will have to do something about it, seen the post re 506, very interesting, I will think on and say a bit if I may later.

Regards

 

John K



Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 1:10am

 Hi John,

 Theres probably another D about somewhere that's sitting in a creek rotting. Put a wanted ad on Ebay in a few different countries, that may bring one out of the woodwork if someones seen one. Offer a reward though & thousands will be sited in nigeria.

 Chances are if one is still out there most people outside these forums wouldnt know what it was or its importance & could walk their dog past it every day. Wishful thinking but stranger thing happen!



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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 6:41pm

Just to add to what has been ‘Posted’ on MTB 653.

Built by Alex Robertson and Sons at Sandbank Argylshire - she was completed in March 1943 – Commissioned into the 30th Flotilla – (soon to be renumbered 54th Flotilla) the Senior Officer of which was Lt Cdr R. A. Tamber. Royal Norwegian Navy. Her first Commanding Officer was Lt Matland (R Nor. N) then, at the end of January 1944, her First Lieutenant (Lt Marthinsen (R Nor. N) took over the Command of 653.

Just one of her many exploits:

In February 1944, whilst on an Operation she grounded on a Shoal while creeping up to attack enemy shipping just off Bergen. Stuck hard and fast, even after trying to reverse off with Full power, when quite by chance, an enemy Coaster crossed the sights of her Torpedo armament. Lt Marthinsen fired both Torpedo Tubes and scored two Hits on SS Ditmar Koel . This action ‘lightened’ her For’ard and she was able to reverse off the Shoal. SS Ditmar Koel was given the coup de grace by MTB 717.

653 was seriously damaged by the grounding and while she limped away there was frantic bailing by the Crew until eventually all Engines were disabled by flooding. She was then taken under Tow by 717 eventually arriving back at her Base, then at Lerwick.

653 was put up for ‘Disposal’ in 1945 and Sold Off in 1949.

 

 

Sources: Allied Coastal Forces of WW2 Volume 1. John Lambert and Al Ross

                     Dog Boats at War L.C.Reynolds. OBE.DSC.

                      ADM199/536/7

               199/997

 



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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 6:54pm

Hi

Pioneer - thank you for the additional info on 653. If she was sold off in 1949 then I think it's safe to assume that she probably went straight to the Norfolk Broads.

Regarding the second boat, pictured at Norwich in 1951. I have spoken to the chairman of the MTB 102 Trust who has provided some very interesting information. Apparently the sea cadets at Norwich had two fairmile D's, though not at the same time. Those vessels were numbered 724 and 740, so I think Christians identification of it possibly being MTB 740 is indeed correct. Sadly, it seems that one of those D's was towed off to Breydon Marine for scrapping on instructions from the Admiralty, although I'm not sure when.

A member of the Norfolk Broads forum also kindly posted a picture of the other known converted ex Admiralty boat which was used on the Broads - Young Jim. It's only a very small image, so appologies for that, but I will post it below anyway.

Many thanks - Carol



Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 7:12pm

Hello Carol

According to JL&AR - 724 went to the Sea Cadet's at Norwich in December1946 - sold off in 1954, While 740 also went to the Sea Cadets Norwich in 1946 - but the book does not say what eventually happened to 740. Where did the info come from that they 'were not at the same time' used by this very active (at the time) Sea Cadet Corps?

Regards



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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 11:34pm

Hi

Sorry Pioneer, I probably should have said that I "believed" them not to have been used at the same time. Thanks for the information on the dates when they were actually used by the Sea Cadets. That is what is so great about finding this forum for help with this side of Broadland's history. I have found before that a pool of knowledge on a subject will eventually sort out as much of the definative history as is possible. Many thanks for all the help so far and what ever information you can find will be gratefully recieved!

Carol



Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 8:43am

Hi all,

 

Very interesting re the D' and the Sea Cadets, ex SCC myself, knew that many were used by units as HQs according to John Lambert's anatomy of the D book, lists fates etc one was at Sittingbourne unit. Believe Norwich cadets have an ex Swedish boat now, took a while to get there as a bridge over the river had to be re-commssioned I believe.

John 



Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 08 August 2008 at 11:13am
Hi All,
I  think I found the remains of MTB 653 a couple of months ago, if it is what I think it is.
I could not get a very good picture but will try again from the water or borrow a decent camera.
there is very little of her (presuming it is) but my reason for the assumption is the shape and length of her stem, it is dead straight and quite long. there is no deck, the aft disappears into some trees and 'pointing' to the right there is no starboard side in her, except for a couple of feet, there is probably 20-30 feet of the forward port withonly the interior visable, you can see numerous timbers/ frames which seem quite close together and the bow is quite sharp.
I am sorry for not having a photo to discuss but she is in the S/E corner of Salhouse broad in Norfolk, you cannot see her from google earth but is just to the top right of the 'boat shaped' clump of trees.


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 08 August 2008 at 2:25pm
That will make the remains of 3 'dog' boats. looking better every day.

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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 08 August 2008 at 5:44pm
Hi there,
 
Indeed, now if we get enought bits......!
 
Johnk


Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 3:50pm
 
Is this the shape in question?
 
would be great if there was some more Dog boat parts about. Wink
 
 
Jim.


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Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 7:31pm
Hi Jim,
Yes, that is the shape,  but the boat is just above it to the right in the bank. you can see it from the boardwalk (on the left of the picture) I should get hold of a decent camera with a zoom or take my launch up there but that would take me 3hrs and I'm not taxed!
 
I will try and make an effort!


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 7:42pm

Thanks Clive.

think thats quite an effort..i might be on a course down that way soon (couple of months)..think i know what i will do on my day off...Thumbs%20Up
 
Regards
 
Jim
 
P.S hows MASB 32 doing ?


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Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 8:00pm
Jim,
Be warned, there is not much to see IF it is the remains of a 'D'.
let me know when you are about.
 
'32 is powerless at the moment, ( I took my mower over the shorepower cable!)


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 8:06pm
forgot to say it is only a 10 min drive and 10 min walk from my house but I cannot get close enough for my c**p camera..

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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 19 November 2008 at 2:16pm
Hi
 
I jst thought I'd check in here to see whether there had been any updates on MTB653 as it had been a few months since I last looked.
 
The location for the original picture I posted has definately been confirmed as being near to Horning, and I have spoken to someone who remembers her being moored there in the 50s.
 
As for the wreck at Salhouse .... I was intrigued by this earlier in the year as I was told that it was the remains of an old military boat. I took some pictures whilst there in July and can confirm that there is not a lot left of it! had I realised that it may well have been the elusive 653 then I'd have taken a much closer look! Anyway ... picture below.
 
Carol
 


Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 19 November 2008 at 4:30pm
Good work AdnamsGirl....Mmmmm i wonder if its a Dog boat?

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Posted By: Whitelady
Date Posted: 20 November 2008 at 11:47am
Can't really see a lot of it?!


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You don't own a boat, a boat owns you.


Posted By: Whitelady
Date Posted: 20 November 2008 at 11:56am
I think like clive said it would have to be a case of getting up close and personal in a tender to see it, and the later in the year/earlier part of next year will probably be the best time to do it. and 2.5-3 hours after low tide at Yarmouth to ensure the most of it is exposed.

Any volunteers?


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You don't own a boat, a boat owns you.


Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 21 November 2008 at 2:40pm
I have a little 10' rowing boat I can bring up if needed...
Cheers
 
 


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Don


Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame?


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 21 November 2008 at 3:58pm
I know that people like Johnk love the Fairmile D's and I have just read a bit of info on some of the "missing" one's, unfortunatly a diving suit is required to find these. For the people who keep Record's of the number's of these Craft note the following:
 
M.T.B's No's 633, 634, 637, 638 and 670
M.G.B's No's 642, 643, 658, 659, 674, 698 and 700
 The above vessel's were held in Cat B reserve in Pieta Creek, Malta. In 1946 they were sold to Egypt, unfortunatly they all now lay between Malta and Egypt as fish homes as they all sank whilst being towed to their proposed destination.


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 21 November 2008 at 7:30pm
Hi there,
 
Well love.....!!!? but yes of course very interested, what a shame, 12 boats! perhaps if they had made it...HMS Whimbrel, corvette survives and there were hopes to bring her back, but off the boil now. Then again, wooden vessel and believe? problems with glues used, albeit the Chatham D was around until burnt, chunk of the bow and a few other bits still there. All intersting stuff,
 
JohnK


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 21 November 2008 at 8:18pm
Hi
 Thanks to Carol for putting the pic up, uou can see a bit more at low tide but not much!
IF anyone is really interested in a better look then please get in touch and we  can go for a 1/2  hour trip and have a better look, obviously threre would be no need to take any pumps!!!!


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: Whitelady
Date Posted: 21 November 2008 at 8:25pm
i dunno you might just be able to pump it out... if you dam the river both sides of it :D

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You don't own a boat, a boat owns you.


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 24 November 2008 at 2:51am
Dunno folks? looks like the remains of a short admiralty bridge to me but dont know the size of the trees there so cant guess at the scale. Things were modified after hostilities so who knows? If she is a "Dog" then sunk in a pete bog or not, dont know if we can save that one

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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 24 November 2008 at 3:06am
Of course it could be a strange conversion of a "B". If thats her nose sticking out the profile fits better as Dogs where rather distinctive. Best way to find out would be low tide and a dozen cans of expanding foam. Lets hope theres one more D out there though! somebody find me a complete one in a creek please

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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 24 November 2008 at 2:00pm
jimmy p, judging by the number of previously unknown boats that have recently come to light I am sure somewhere there will still be a complete and hopefully floating "Dog" boat just waiting for you and johnk. Regards.


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 24 November 2008 at 4:33pm
Hi,
 
Oh if only! but you never know...
 
Johnk


Posted By: Jim
Date Posted: 24 November 2008 at 6:45pm
Did any one find anything about the Dog Boats tranfered to Argintina?
 
Just a thought
 Wink
 
I have a small pic of a model of one used as a partol craft but nothing else.


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Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 28 November 2008 at 11:50am
Hi,
I have had this reply regarding the 'Salhouse wreak'
 
Regarding the wreck at Salhouse, I was always lead to believe it was of WW1 vintage. I have recently been in touch with a chap from Salhouse who reckons she is a WW1 torpedo towing boat, was converted to a private yacht between the wars and was sunk during WW11 to prevent seaplanes landing. By the end of hostilities she was beyond economical repair and was towed to where she now lays to end her days. He says that allegedly when she sunk she had a grand piano on board.
 
 
has anyone got a picture of such a craft or info on types so we can compare what is left?
Thanks, Clive..


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 28 November 2008 at 8:50pm
The first torpedoes were simply towed across the bows of the enemy vessel.It would ram the rope and drag the torpedo against its hull..Only refrence I can find is that they were 'small fast boats'.

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Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 28 November 2008 at 9:04pm
When a lad I used to canoe on Salhouse Broad. That was in the 50s and the wreck you are talking about was there then. I don't think a D boat would have got into that state in such a short time. I was lead to believe it was WW1.
 
Richard.


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If it ain't broke don't fix it!


Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 30 November 2008 at 2:55pm
It sounds like an early Torpedo Recovery Vessel, whatever it turns out to be it is a previous unknown as far as I am aware and a good find if it is pre W.W,2. As I indicated earlier the "unknowns" are still popping up, hope for a "D" yet. Reading Lambert's book a lot of the "D's" are down as being scrapped does any know which Companies scrapped which, or  does the word scrapped just mean disposed off as two of the vessel's listed to my knowledge were stripped of useful parts and "Vikinged"


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 8:19pm
Hi,
If I had read the first posts a bit better then I would have seen that this boat was in Norwich after being in Horning so little chance of coming back to salhouse.
 
I did find this posted on another broads related forum today....
 
 
 
Hi all
The old wreck was named Water Witch. There were two wrecks along that side of Salhouse. Water Witch being nearest to the stern on moorings. The second has always been fully submerged and lies along the same bank but three quaters of the way towards the eastern ( Horning ) side exit. According to the old balliff who collected mooring fees in the fifties and sixties from his old green boat complete with even older seagull out board they were owned by the Norwich sea scouts. At the outbreak of war they were told to move them or sink them in case of invasion. as they couldnt move them enywhere they sunk them. Water Witch bottomed out before fully submerging . The other sunk completely. As a kid I used to fish from WW roof but I dont think Id risk it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers Sirdar


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: delbuoy
Date Posted: 21 October 2009 at 6:36pm
hi carol,i joind last because of 653 and it looks like iam going to cause a stire already.ifound the photo of her last night,in norwich,71 or 72.cant find it tonight.point is i bought her in 71 and was living on her when that photo was taken.if you would like to know more let me know.delbuoy


Posted By: delbuoy
Date Posted: 21 October 2009 at 6:51pm
hi i bought 653 in 71 and was living on her when photo was taken in norwich.delbuoy.


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 22 October 2009 at 8:41am
Hello Delbuoy,
 
Welcome aboard, great to hear and would be nice to see if you can pic of 653 when you had her, great interest in D's as you might see,
 
Johnk


Posted By: AdnamsGirl
Date Posted: 23 October 2009 at 12:39pm
Hi Delbouy
 
I hope that you don't mind, but I noticed that you had posted this picture of 653 when you had her on another forum. I would love to hear what memories you do have of her - will send you a PM!
 
 
Carol
 
 
 


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 25 October 2009 at 9:06pm
Yes, fantastic, the size of these vessels, very like the E-boat at Southdown, if only we had an example...
 
Johnk


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 19 January 2012 at 8:54pm
Have a look at this one 9 mins 20 secs, not much but better than a photo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kX_OuS_CH4&feature=player_embedded - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kX_OuS_CH4&feature=player_embedded
 
 


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: delbuoy
Date Posted: 26 April 2012 at 9:22pm
hi all i know will be reveald who are you.
del.



Posted By: andysadd
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 3:59pm
Hello Everyone first time poster

I believe I may have tracked down the Thorpe green MTB.

When I was a kid my dad was building a boat at Pat Moss marine in Thorpe. I would always be down the boatyard with him but I would often wander around and check out the MTB on the green, it always fascinated me.

not long after the MTB was moved from the green I spotted it moored further down the river while i was on the train to Gt Yarmouth. it was half sunk and the superstructure was being removed.

I kind of forgot about the old gal until having a browse on google earth and I spotted a large half submerged vessel in the same place as i saw the MTB a good few years before.

A month ago I was in the Town house pub in |Thorpe sitting in the gardens and straight across the water was this hull as spotted on google images. its rotting and covered in algae and moss and the ducks make good use of it as a toilet, I couldn't resist getting in to my canoe a few days later and taking a closer look, I was able to get right up to it and after a quick scrape of the hull the familiar Grey paint was present, Im sure this is the MTB. I took a pic but in sadly dropped my camera in to the water so its now beside the wreck :(

IM finding it hard to get a screen image on here due to its size but go to google images look at thorpe green, look to the west down the river and before the rail bridge you will see a basin cut in to the island, here you will see the curved lines of the mtb. dead opposite the town house pub


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 4:27pm
MGB56?

put these coordinates into Google Maps, is that the wreck you mean?

52.625489,1.333272


Posted By: andysadd
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 4:40pm
Yep thats the one !


Posted By: andysadd
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 4:41pm
MTB 653 i believe, the one that belonged to the Hearts Boatyard


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 4:54pm
MGB56, see more here;

  http://thenorfolkbroads.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2866&start=30 - http://thenorfolkbroads.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2866&start=30


  http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=285&PN=1 - http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=285&PN=1



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Posted By: andysadd
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 5:16pm
Thanks Christian, I thought I may have found a let boat! it sure is a nice thing up close though, shame it can't be rescued


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 12 July 2012 at 10:39pm
A quick comparison of the vessel in that short video, in the web link provided by Christian, with gun boats on the web would suggest the 'sea witch' or 'sea wych' might be a 1915 type ML. built by elco (yes the american pt boat builder) for the Royal Navy.
  http://www.motorlaunchpatrol.net/ - http://www.motorlaunchpatrol.net/
I'm willing to bet there's plenty of yanks out there who would almost kill to get that 'missing link' in their pt boat history.

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Posted By: delbuoy
Date Posted: 13 March 2019 at 3:14am
hi carol its delbuoy I sort of got out of the loop when hank died and the old site folded haven't seen roya for years how are you keeping 
del



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