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ST440

Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: Boats (In alphabetical order)
Forum Name: Seaplane Tenders
Forum Description: Discussion on Seaplane Tenders
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=522
Printed Date: 22 June 2017 at 9:41pm


Topic: ST440
Posted By: rikky.c
Subject: ST440
Date Posted: 02 April 2008 at 5:07pm
Hello,Anyone able to give me some idea has to how long it could take to stop water seeping through on my st?Has been out of the water for around 3 years and was slipped last saturday,It takes on around 8 inches over night,Thanks,Rick.



Replies:
Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 03 April 2008 at 1:22am

Rikky.C

I am sorry to hear that she is still taking in so much water. Have you identified any specific locations where the water is coming in or is it a general flow. Do you have any photos?

Orignally the tightness of the hull was provided by a layer doped or oiled fabric, depending on the builder with the planks taking up as more of a secondary measure. Remember that your bottom planks are probably around +-1/4" thick edge butted, so there is no space for traditional caulking and any plank sealing relies on a good and tight edge fit, especially at the diagonal seam crossings. On the sides the single diagonal sides is sealed by the screw or sealing batton, which often has a light bedding of white lead as a sealing barrier.

The time taken to 'take up' will depend on several factors; Condition of timbers and amount of shrinkage during storage; Dryness during storage and coatings/methods applied to the planking.

Aged and repeatedly moisture cycled timbers can shrink back quite a bit if they have a degree of deterioration in them and if they have been very dry eg around 12%  mc or lower then they can have difficulty taking up fully to their original section.

Being very dry can also cause some damage to the integrity as it the shrunk planks will pull accross each other their fastenings and the remaining internal calico membrane, so you need to watch out for these areas.

Other areas to check are in the region of any lifting strop locations as this can cause damage which is not easily visible but affects the hull integrity. Eg. Even if it is pulling on the chine rubber mounting bolts and setting back into position, the bolts have still been pulled in their bores and can therefore leak.

The addition of coatings will also tend to seal up the planks and arrest their ability to take up water. Most modern coatings are much more impermeable than the older coatings.

'The Wood Wizard' has slipped more of these boats, in various conditions and repair systems than most so he may be able to offer some comment and advise for you too.

Best regards AndyS 



Posted By: rikky.c
Date Posted: 03 April 2008 at 7:47pm

Hi andy,Thanks for the reply,Went up to the boat this afternoon and it seems to have slowed down as there was just over 4 inches after leaving it for around 24 hours so fingers crossed it might be sealing up?got loads of photos but they are  done on a real camera.Its the one on page 2 of the yardarm though looking a lot better than it did then?Thanks,Rick.



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Posted By: rikky.c
Date Posted: 29 June 2009 at 9:37pm
Hi just a quick question,Should my ST be copper sheathed?Thanks,Rick.


Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 30 June 2009 at 12:49am
I understand that only boats that were meant to operate in warmer climates ( Med etc) were fitted with copper sheathing to stop the wood boring critters like the toredo worm.
My BPB ST seems to have had no copper fitted.
Cheers
Don 


Posted By: rikky.c
Date Posted: 30 June 2009 at 8:10am
Hi don,Thanks for the info,Thats what i thought,strange really as i dont think it ever left the uk judging by the rot.How are you doing with yours?Thanks,Rick.


Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 01 July 2009 at 10:58am
Some of the boats had Copper Napthanate applied, which may lead to some of the confusion.
I think that some of the Hong Kong vessels had copper sheathing added (may have been locally or to the locally built/repaired vessels), but to my knowledge none of the UK destined vessels had copper fitted by the BPBCo factory.
Andy


Posted By: ASR1255
Date Posted: 01 July 2009 at 8:57pm
HELLO ALL ,
SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE ,AFTER MY OLD 200 CLASS WAS OUT OF THE WATER FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS, ALL SHE NEEDED WAS THE CHINE BOLTS TIGHTENING . I HAD CAULKED THE BOTTOM WITH SIKAFLEX WHERE I COULD, BUT AFTER A WEEK OF BEING IN TIDAL WATERS SHE DID NOT LEAK APART FROM THE CHINE.  ANY WAY ALL THESE OLD GIRLS ARE DIFFERENT, SO GOOD LUCK AND DON'T DESPAIR THEY WERE BUILT TO FLOAT!
GOOD LUCK ANYHOW
STEVE


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SAVE EM ALL


Posted By: rikky.c
Date Posted: 01 July 2009 at 10:16pm

Hi ,its defenatly thin copper and not the pretendy stuff,only asking about it as i am thinking of taking it off once its out of the water,as i dont think there would be any advantages in leaving it on?I was wondering if the marine craft unit could have put it on as they did a air sea rescue conversion to it in 1947?Any thoughts on that idea?Thanks,Rick.



Posted By: rozm2
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 6:20pm
The copper sheathing will act as antifoul, no need to do it every year, hence some antifoul is copper based, it will also help the wood from rotting (not much but again, think of cuprinol, copper based and it stops rot (not when you've already got it mind)) I'd be tempted to re-instate it if possible, it all depends what's best with you and how you plan to use her!


Posted By: rikky.c
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 10:44pm
Hi.Thanks for the reply,I had it all reinstated a 18 months ago and it still seem good but i am being advised to take it off as it will act like a water trap that will make the wood rot quicker?which dont make much sense to me as the wood will still be in the water,Thanks for your advice,i think that i will leave it on.Rick.


Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 4:31pm
Ricky
I guess a summary...
The copper in contact will slow any rot it is in contact with.
In salt water it will provide anti-fouling and work protection. The salt water seaping through will also not be good for fungus and can be a beneficial preservative.
the copper may cause corrosion of disimilar metals which are in contact or bonded to it, when in salt water.
If in fresh water then the copper will tend to act as a barrier to salt water coming in and when lifted out will tend to hold fresh water (rain water) in and slow the drying process.
The danger is retaining fresh water in the boat at a moderate level, where fungus has enough fresh water to grow, but can still breath. This is where retained rain and fresh water is most serious.
Copper napthanate was a solution which BPBCo painted on the hull timbers (at least on th earlier boats anyway) to soak in and provide a degree of protection, but will have long since washed out and become ineffective.
...therefore guard against the fresh water retention and then your worries should be reduced.
Good luck and enjoy her!
Andy




Posted By: STEVIE
Date Posted: 09 August 2011 at 2:25pm
HI YA

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU STILL OWNED ST440?? THIS BOAT BELONGED TO MY FATHER AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT IF YOU DO

REGARDS

STEVE (TEDDINGTON)


Posted By: rikky.c
Date Posted: 09 August 2011 at 9:15pm
Hi.Yes still own 440.its in nottingham if you are ever passing pop in and have a look.Though it might have changed a bit since you would last saw it?Thanks.Rick.


Posted By: Caprella
Date Posted: 09 August 2011 at 9:25pm
Hi Ricky, a different question - I was wondering how the copper sheathing went and also were you got the materials? I am looking at replacing the copper stripped from the hull of Caprella a 60ft Pinnace, as it appears to have kept the hull in very good condition over the years, but wanted to get the correct materials and fitting method as it has the potential to cause problems if not done correctly and advice on this is hard to get. Many thanks


Posted By: burgundyben
Date Posted: 09 August 2011 at 9:59pm
You should ask the question about copper sheathing on the classicboat magazine forum or woodenboat.  Perhaps log onto the motorboat forum at ybw.com and seek out Colin Scott, he's got a Silver with copper sheathing and will know everything on the subject.


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Napier Lion engine wanted.


Posted By: Caprella
Date Posted: 09 August 2011 at 10:22pm

Thanks, just signed up to the Classic Boat forum yesterday, will give that a go and also try and contact Colin Scott, any first hand practical experience of the best methods and pitfalls will be a huge help, and bearing in mind the cost and time involved I don't want to get it wrong!



Posted By: STEVIE
Date Posted: 10 August 2011 at 8:28am
THANKS FOR THE REPLY RIKKY

CAN YOU TELL ME IF THE BOATS NAME WAS "PEMBROKE PUFFIN" WHEN YOU BOUGHT HER???

STEVE


Posted By: rikky.c
Date Posted: 10 August 2011 at 6:54pm
It sure was.


Posted By: Patrick JD
Date Posted: 20 January 2017 at 9:58pm
Hi Rikky,

I just wanted to know whether you still owned 'Pembroke Puffin' ST440, and whether she had been re-fitted to it's former glory (if that was the intention?)

It would be great to see a recent photo of how she looks now.

My brother, Stevie, exchanged posts with you in 2011 to confirm whether it was the boat our father owned for a number of years from 1974. I believe that is indeed the case. I spent quite a bit of time on her through the years and, as I say, it would be good to see how she looks now.

Kind regards
 


Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 22 January 2017 at 10:12pm
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/2683/st-440" rel="nofollow - http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/2683/st-440



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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 4:32pm
Hi Christian,

Many thanks, trust you are keeping well, very nice to see, all the best.

Johnk


Posted By: Patrick JD
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 6:43pm
Hello Christian,

Many thanks for the link to ST440, much appreciated. Its good to see that she's still in use.

Kind regards
Patrick  Thumbs Up


Posted By: Ron 5
Date Posted: 04 March 2017 at 11:27pm
Patrick, are you related to Brian (I think that was his name) from Hull by any chance who at one time owned 440?


Posted By: Patrick JD
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 8:21am
Hi Ron,

Sorry, I don't know a previous owner by the name of Brian from Hull. 

Kind regards 
Patrick



Posted By: Ron 5
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 9:28am
Thank You Patrick,
                             The last time I saw 440 was at Hull Marina, must be over 15 years when the chap had her, the next time I went to look for her she was still there but he had sold her and bought another interesting vessel called 'John Vincent'.
                                Looking back through the posts I see the photograph of a vessel hanging in lifting strops, she was also in Hull at the time, although not an ST she was also interesting and if my memory serves me correctly she and one other were built for the Shah of Persia regime but not delivered due to the change of management out there. Her sister ship I believe went to the U.S.
As others have commented it is good to see 440 is still going strong and a credit to those who have owned her and have spent so much time and money keeping shipshape.


Posted By: Ron 5
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 5:08pm
Can I ask if there is another photograph of the vessel hanging from the strops in this section, have I got it wrong or is it a modified Broadbeam ST? Unfortunately at the moment I cannot locate my photographs of the Shah vessel to compare. Thank You.


Posted By: Ron 5
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Ron 5 Ron 5 wrote:

Can I ask if there is another photograph of the vessel hanging from the strops in this section, have I got it wrong or is it a modified Broadbeam ST? Unfortunately at the moment I cannot locate my photographs of the Shah vessel to compare. Thank You.

It could well be the angle at which the photograph was taken which has me a bit puzzled in regards to shape of the Wheelhouse.



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