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MTB 245

Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: Boats (In alphabetical order)
Forum Name: Motor Torpedo Boats
Forum Description: Discussion on Motor Torpedo Boats
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=601
Printed Date: 20 July 2018 at 1:47pm


Topic: MTB 245
Posted By: Pioneer
Subject: MTB 245
Date Posted: 01 February 2009 at 9:08am
Good evening.
 
Some progress on MTB245 has been made today.
 
Length overall                                                             71.0 ft.
Breadth.                                                                            19.5 ft.
Depth keel to deck                                                      9.6 ft.
Weight estimated                                                       20.0 tonnes. 
 
1. Myself and David Earle Payne went to the boat this morning, and with the help of Ian Macgillivray, the owner, had a good look over. Some photos attached showing the boat, the original Wardroom settee, the fore peak and a keel shot.
Ian advised us that quite a bit of original remained inside her.
It appears that all the bulkheads remain intact.
The decks were covered with timber before the glass was put on.
 
2. Richard Basey and Keith Wood of the MTB102/Newson Yard ( http://www.mtb102.com - www.mtb102.com and http://www.newson.co.uk - www.newson.co.uk )have been requested to come down and see the boat as soon as possible.
The reason for this is that  they are both best qualified to asses her, and as they will be responsible  for her restoration, they are the best people to judge wither she should be taken on or not. It is hoped that this visit will take place this coming week.
Tom Cunliffe ( http://www.tomcunliffe.com - www.tomcunliffe.com ) was also with us, and Tom has offered to assist as best he can.
The planned survey by John Budden will probably not be now needed. Thanks John.
 
3. Ian (the owner) has very kindly offered us as follows.
a. The boat can be sold to the MTB102 Trust/ Newson Yard for £1.00.
b. Ian has agreed that we have till the end of Feb to get our act together, or she will go to others who have shown interest. Ian would prefer she goes to the Trust/Yard.
c. In the event we proceed , Ian has agreed to allow us to remove the accommodation structure, whilst she is on her mud berth.
We have 4 volunteers for this job, David E-P, Richard H, Simon and his son David.
This is to facilitate her movement under the river bridge as well as to fit under road bridges en route to Lowestoft. Thanks Ian.
 
4. The quote for a seaway tow has come in at £12,000.00.
A tow was not seriously considered anyway, as the cost to prep for a tow would have been about £5000.00...total tow cost about £20,000.00 with insurance etc.
 
5. A quote has come in for the road haulage from the same company which took the MASB from Southampton to Lowestoft. This amounts to £2500.00 plus vat. (to be recovered through the Trust). This is much better than the first quote received, and they know the way.
 
6. The cost for craneage will be found, but is expected to be in the region of £1000.00 plus vat.
 
7. The cost to move the boat to a suitable lifting berth, as well as insurance etc is expected to be about £1000.00.
 
8. A contingency cost of say £1500.00 to cover unknowns which may be come wellknowns is suggested.
 
9. A minimum amount of £6000.00, plus vat at 15%  £900.00 = £6900.00 needs to achieved to complete the move to Lowestoft.
 
10. The present pledged amount is now £500.00..for which many thanks all who have offered.
 
We are optimistic at this time that the boat will be assessed as ok to go.
If this is so, we have then to find the full amount required to move her, at very short notice, and we will be requesting the help of the media, as well any donors who you may be able to persuade, to take part in this project.
 
Sitrep 2 will follow on Monday, with a proposed schedule for the next 2 weeks.
 
Richard Hellyer
BMPT
023 8089 0900
http://www.bmpt.org.uk - www.bmpt.org.uk
 


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Pioneer - Forum Moderator



Replies:
Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 01 February 2009 at 6:04pm

                                                                     



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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 10:23am

Ladies & Gentlemen,

I am assuming that if you are reading this, then you will have some level of interest in what happens to MTB 245!
As you will have seen from the previous posts, there is a strong possibility that 245 may be 'saved' you will also be aware that there is a very short, tight, time scale to achieve this!
With these points in mind - WHAT ARE WE ALL PREPARED TO DO?
Pathfinder will be away for the next two weeks, and has asked me to 'co-ordinate' things in his abscence.
We currently have volunteers prepared to assist Ian Macgillvray in removing 'The Shed' from the hull to make life easier and lighter for her trip to sunny Lowestoft! (if we get the go ahead from the specialists from 102/Newsons)
To fund this stage of the project we require around the £6,000 mark. We are hoping that we will get some support from local media sources, and other grant possibilites, this is always the favoured option, because it isn't our money! however these sources may not be availible immediately and as you can probably imagine if this is to go ahead then it needs to happen NOW!
Let's not dither with this - it will either happen or it won't - THE CHOICE IS YOURS!
I know that money is not the easiest thing to raise, and we don't have enough to do all of the things that we would like to do - but there are other ways, let's have your thoughts and ideas.
Don't forget that the BMPT has its own Ebay site, so if you have anything to sell do it there so you can donate a percentage to the BMPT for this project (anything from 10% - 100%)
 
NOW OR NEVER, THE CHOICE IS YOURS!!!!!   Smile  Cry ?
 
 
To contact me:
 
Telephone: 07850653619
Email: mailto:davidearlepayne@btinternet.com - davidearlepayne@btinternet.com
or through the forum.
 
 


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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 12:33pm
Gentlemen,
 
This covers the proposed meeting on the 7th February on MTB245.
 
From my personal view, the project must be processed with great care and attention to sensibility, and that we do not allow the mists of our heritage to blind the mind..!
 
I do not wish to be involved unless we stick to the agenda, and that all decisions are taken after discussion with the team above. This will allow common sense to prevail.
 
I am away for 2 weeks and David Earle-Payne has agreed to take the weight over this period.
mailto:davidearlepayne@btinternet.com - davidearlepayne@btinternet.com 07850 653619
 
I have asked David to copy me in, so I can respond where necessary.
 
For the meeting on Saturday, D E-P will cordinate with you and Ian..
 
Richard Basey         01603  782068
Keith Wood                01502 57490
Ian                                   0780 9019319
Tom                                 07818 400982
Alan                               07836 364960
John                               01489 784202 after 1800 please.
 
I feel that the result of the meeting should be sent to all those addresses on this email, in order that questions can be raised if necessary.
 
Pledges now at £850 thanks to Christian and His Father.
 
Good luck.
 
Richard Hellyer
023 8089 0900
wlmailhtml:%7b0B6F311C-F385-4EA1-A316-D4871C748504%7dmid://00000012/!x-usc:mailto:pathfinder@safemariner.co.uk - pathfinder@safemariner.co.uk


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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 12:36pm
Good morning.
 
The situation remains steady at the moment, and the next step will be to get the boat looked at by Richard Basey and Keith Wood, from Lowestoft.
 
The plan is for RB and hopefully KW to come down this coming Saturday, the 7th February.
 
David Earle-Payne will coordinate the visit with the boat owner Ian, and we hope that John Budden can also be in attendance.
 
On completion of the visit, a decision will be made as to whether we go ahead with the project, or not.
 
If the decision is no go, then all our project activity will cease.
 
If the decision is to go ahead, then the process of fund raising will get underway.
 
Before any physical action can be undertaken on the boat, the full finance needs to be in place, to ensure the successful completion of the move to Lowestoft.
 
If we are unable to achieve the financial target within our available timeframe, ie the end of February, the project will have to be terminated.
 
Once this financial security has been achieved, volunteers will be asked to attend the boat. 
This volunteer situation will be revisited when the time is right, and Ian, the owner, has requested that visits to the boat in the meantime, are only to achieve the immediate needs of the project.
 
David Earle-Payne will issue Sitrep 3 after the weekend meeting.
 
Your patience with the project process is much appreciated, and any further pledges toward the financial target will be very welcome.
We have £850.00 pledged at this time.
 
Contact David phone 07850653619.
 
Richard Hellyer.


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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 1:39pm
Hi there,
 
All noted by me and others who are interested, clearly we need to follow the above, easy to get excited but....need to look at with a clear eye, shifting her is fine, if no vessel then can't save it, but as mentioned, to take forward will cost a few pennies to say the least. Will keep my thinking cap on to try and offer ideas re money, albeit as Richard says, time scale short for grant giving bodies, hopefully we might get through on straight donations, IF and WHEN we go, hope to offer two hands to help, quiet good at lifting, shifting and sweeping at least. Look forward to hearing post the 7th,
 
JohnK


Posted By: Garethep
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 5:14pm
It may be worth contacting this lot....

http://search.hlf.org.uk/nhmfweb/aboutthenhmf - http://search.hlf.org.uk/nhmfweb/aboutthenhmf

 


this kind of thing does seem to be just what they are there for.


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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 5:59pm
Hi Gareth,
 
Just tried the link, indeed the Heritage Lottery Fund could well be tried later, won't be able to get anything in the short timescale we have to shift the vessel, but possibley IF she is taken on post the 7th, can only hope we can if so, need to raise the £6900 pronto.
 
Johnk


Posted By: Garethep
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 6:30pm
Thanks to Pioneer for editing the link,  it seems to work now.


Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 6:31pm
Gareth,
 
Thanks for that, we will be contacting them, although as you may have seen recently there is an issue with boats that move! it's ok if they stay in one place like the Cutty Sark but if they are on the move they may not qualify!
 
 


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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 6:41pm
Hi David,
 
Indeed, thanks Pioneer for sorting, the NHMF is as the web-site says, for "emergencys" and yes there are or were issues with the Heritage Protection Bill, now laid off, with getting protection for moving ships, NHMF also turned down LST Stalker, however, no harm in applying, but again as mentioned, timescale might be to short for them to respond...
 
JohnK


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 11:15pm

A quick thought chaps. Could the medusa trust be any help for a short term berth if the funds to truck arent ready in time? Could a truck get to their slipway ect?

 Count me in for a few days work & if you dont take her i will. Lets hope it all goes to plan & she's soon in the capable hands of newsons. Look forward to seeing this project developThumbs%20Up



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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 9:19am
Good morning,
 
SERIOUS PROBLEM.
 
The width of MTB 245 is 19 foot 6 inches.
 
The maximum permissable on the roads is 15 foot 9 inches.
 
We are therefore unable to transport this boat by road to Lowestoft.
 
The options will no doubt be well aired, but the realistic outcome will be that we cannot afford any of those options. (Towage,Barge etc)
 
Richard Basey and David Earle-Payne are advised of the situation.
 
I am sorry to have to be the bearer of this bad news.
 
Richard Hellyer


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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: burgundyben
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 10:27am
I thought STGO means that up to 6.1 mtrs (a tad over 20 ft) could be carried with some extra paperwork and maybe an escort?
 
That Sunseeker they put on the roundabout for Southampton Boat Show is huge!
 
See http://www.roadtransport.com/RoadLegal/11949/special-types-stgo.html - http://www.roadtransport.com/RoadLegal/11949/special-types-stgo.html
 
 


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Napier Lion engine wanted.


Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 10:32am
Although it does appear to be unlikely, I am in touch with a company which specialises in obtaining exceptional permissions for road transport. It will be very hard to obtain these permissions, but they haven't written it off just yet!
 
 


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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 10:39am
Hi there,
 
Just seen latest ex Richard, I do hope we can get this sorted, burgendyben might have something, these big motor boats must be beamy, but of course may well cost more, I would hope for just a metre we would not need escort vehicles and a hold load of...but we shall see,
 
Johnk 


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 10:51am
Hi David,
 
Appreciate you may well be snowed, sorry to add, what a b****r, had a look at the site ex Burgundyben, 6m may just do it? have just asked the question of a haulier this end, Kent, I am not in any way setting anything up, just asking for information, not serioulsy suggesting they would do it, plenty of boat haulage down there of course, really want to be of some help, but of course you know the score, please don't think I am suggesting anything else, do understand you don't want well meaning people getting in the way!
 
Regards
 
John


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Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:35pm
Just a thought........
It's interesting that ideas come in as fast as they do, from all differing angles and view - points, such as 'Burgundy Ben' and 'garethep' putting up web addresses (which have both been very informative and helpful) could I ask for the purposes of the 245 project, that any ideas etc. put forward could be attributed with a level of knowledge from the contributor, i.e. are you a professional / amateur / or just very interested, because the time scale for this project is so limited we have to prioritise the avenues to follow. This is in no way intended to stop the ideas flowing, it just may speed things up.
 
many thanks,


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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 3:34pm
Hi David,
 
Indeed, quite right, I have to say not a transport expert by any means, will speak to a transport person and forward PM to you if any use, but please do use local contacts etc, will try and keep out unless have something usefull to contribute, think that best for what it is worth, would be local guys in Southampton?
 
Johnk


Posted By: ASR1255
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 4:53pm

BEING IN THE ABNORMAL LOAD GAME MYSELF DOES COME IN HANDY SOMETIMES!

I HAVE JUST BEEN SPEAKING TO A BOAT HAULAGE FRIEND AND HE HAS ADVISED CONTACTING THE HIGHWAYS AGENCY DIRECT ABOUT OBTAINING A VR1 MOVEMENT OR
ORDER IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO MOVE 245 BY ROAD AFTER ALL 32 WAS FOR CLIVE
  TRY THIS.....HIGHWAYS AGENCY ABNORMAL LOADS TEAM
PHONE-0121  678  8068
FAX-0121  678  8569
mailto:EMAIL-abnormal.loada@highways.gsl.gov.uk - EMAIL-abnormal.loada@highways.gsl.gov.uk
hope this info helps
if there are still problems try
MALCOM ELVY BOAT HAULAGE HE MAY BE ABLE TO HELP
he did mention on the phone he has moved things for the trust before
GOOD LUCK TO ALL INVOLVED
CHEERS STEVE


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SAVE EM ALL


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 5:03pm
Hi Steve,
 
Many thanks for this, sure will be of great interest to the team, fingers crosse we can still get there.
 
Johnk


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 04 February 2009 at 1:49am
Hi guys,
A few bits of imfo we could all find out for them while the guys from newsons carry on the good fight with no time to spare...
1. Who can find out if you need special licences to follow her as escort? If none then happy to follow her to lowestoft with the beacons on if it saves money that can be spent on physically repairing the boat rather than just getting her there. Any volunteers to escort up front when she gets off the motorway??
 2.    If the silly rules brigade win on road transport then what are the options for keeping her in so'ton as cheap as poss while volunteers + newsons guys when available get her ready to tow or cruise(How long on Medusa Alan? that would be a fitting first voyage for the old girl). Could she for example be stowed between sungo & 458? prob legal troubles there but if somebody has spare time to find out.
 3.   I know i am disadvantaged in not being able to write a big cheque for this boat but have the advantage of being able to give my time(if they'll have me lol). What can we as individual people do to help save this one?? It takes money, skills & sometimes just a person with a paint brush for a few saturdays to save these boats!!
 4. unlikely as it is at the moment would anyone sponser her? eg Airfix been selling models of these for years & it may be good business for them to save one(they make kids toys not politically correct policy), renumbering thier kit 245 with an ad of her tearing about now at 40knots would be accesible to them, as is only a few kids have great grandfathers from coastal forces so most arent interested.
 
  Not much but i'll hand carve a pair of sandstone gargoyles & less postage the rest goes to 245. highest bids to Richard but he has a boat to save so unless i've just opened pandora's box then please dont give him more stress than he's undoubtedly under right now. Better still, bid & let final amount be known in say 2 weeks?(if my rocks sell then somebody buy a castle & pay for the dogboatLOL) Its late/early but lets save this one!! The last thornycroft, the last whaleback, the last dogboat,  its on our watch! If we dont save them then they wont be left for anyone else to save!!


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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 04 February 2009 at 12:32pm
Hi Jimmy,
 
Good few points there, David EP mentioned an e-bay site for selling stuff, and proceeds can be directed to BMPT, but believe fees ex this site. Much going on and David doing excellent job of co-ordinating all, problems arising as above re transport but working on, but as mentioned, need to see post the 7th to confirm worth doing to start with.
 
Johnk


Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 04 February 2009 at 1:02pm
With regard to ebay selling, contact garethep, as he set it up, so should be able to give info and advice re costs.

David


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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 04 February 2009 at 10:41pm
Hi All,
 
Yes, did not want to put any one off for a second, do please find out the situation re e-bay and th BMPT, just from my experience of using it for selling something.
 
JohnK


Posted By: ASR1255
Date Posted: 05 February 2009 at 8:04pm

RE: SPECIAL LICENSE FOR ESCORTING WIDE LOADS.

Hi all, just to let you know that you dont need a special license for an escort vehicle, you just need the following:
1) WIDE LOAD BOARDS FOR FRONT AND REAR OF THE VEHICLE
2) HI VIS PAINT OR STRIPES
3) TRAFFIC CONES WITH FLASHING LIGHTS
4) ROOF BEACONS ON VEHICLE
5) 2 WAY RADIO FOR TALKING TO LOAD CARRYING VEHICLE (CB OR OTHERWISE)
6) HANDS FREE PHONE
7) AND ALSO, THE VEHICLE HAS TO HAVE ITS AN 'ESCORT VEHICLE' WRITTEN ON IT!!!
 
I think that's about it, but all this info is available on the highways agency website.
 
Am not 100% sure as i drive the loads, not the escort vehicle!!
I hope this helps, am just sorry i have'nt the trailer to move boats of this size :(
 
Good luck,
Steve


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SAVE EM ALL


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 06 February 2009 at 8:17am
Hi Steve,
 
Thanks again for your input, sure it can be done, just need to wait and see post tommorrow, hopefully it will be doable, question of cost of course as ever, now if only we could find a nice old painting on board...!!!
 
JohnK


Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 06 February 2009 at 2:21pm

Situation Report No. 3.

 

Unfortunately Richard and Keith will not be able to get down to Southampton tomorrow, due to the weather conditions.

 

The current tot al of financial pledges to date is £1100.

We have been in contact with the National Memorial Heritage Fund and the National Historic Ships organisations for grant assistance. The NMHF has indicated that MTB245 is unlikely to receive any funding, but will give a definitive answer following an official request application. The NHS can only consider boats that are on their register after a minimum period (one month I think) and then the grants are relatively small, it is highly probable that she will go onto the register.

 

As you will be aware the method of transport of MTB245 to Lowestoft, has raised both difficulties and suggestions, the initial quote for road transport was in the region of £6,000 (ex VAT) this then fell by the wayside when realisation that it exceeded the width requirements of  ‘normal’ wide loads At that stage it appeared that the project was lost. Subsequently we learn, special permissions can be granted for exceptional cases! This however involves proving that road transport is the only viable option, as the Highways Agency has a policy that for road transport of this nature, it is “To nearest practical port”. The application for moving a boat from Southampton to Lowestoft by road is extremely unlikely to succeed. The ‘add-on’ costs are mounting, as additional insurances are required to cover the damage or, removal and replacement of street furniture (lamp posts, traffic lights, road signs etc.) as well as costs associated with the planning of acceptable routes, police escorts (if deemed necessary) time allowed on the route, as well as a whole host of other things that probably have not yet emerged from the woodwork! This would also require a minimum of eight weeks for the application to be processed and a vast amount of paperwork, with little chance of approval. If approval was forthcoming, a further three weeks is required for the Police forces along the route to assess the practicalities.

The alternative is for Sea transport, initially regarded as too expensive, but now, perhaps looking more realistic, again this has its problems, preparation of 245 for a sea journey, (whether by towage – probably in / on a barge, or by cargo on board a freighter) this would inevitably involve strengthening / bracing to enable her to withstand lifting or the sea journey itself, weather and sea conditions would increase the time scale of the operation.

 

The owner of MTB245 has several other serious offers for the purchase of 245, (one of which has towing arrangements in place for the early part of next week!) He is also aware of the problems we are having over the transport and financing of this project. With our first contact with the owner, we understood his major concerns with the timescale; it does not appear that we can achieve what needs to be done within that time. The other offers are people who want to maintain 245 as a MTB, so there is no intent on breaking or ‘vandalism’.



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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 06 February 2009 at 2:27pm
I am posting this on my own behalf so there is no confusion with regard to opinions held.
 

My view is that we gracefully bow-out at this stage, but offer assistance to the new owner if they need our help. MTB 245 will go onto the NHS register, which will keep its history safe, and if the intent is to have her look more like a Motor Torpedo Boat than a Porta-Cabin then all-well-and-good.



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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 06 February 2009 at 3:53pm
Hi David,
 
Well, I can see what you are saying, and thus it would appear as you say if these other people are ready.....a pity but there it is I guess.  Of course we do have the first and prototype MTB 102, the MGB 81 although not in trust, and so long as she still remains and even "improved" that would be still good, although of course we can never be 100% certain of her future, the owners can do what they will with her of course.  Perhaps after such support and interest in 245, another project may present itself in this way, though as I usually say, as above, we must not forget existing vessels and the work they need.
 
Johnk


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 10:55pm

Clap Well tried David!!

 Just a shame the silly rules ministry was lurking like a bad monty python sketch. Honestly believe that you chaps are the best option for these boats as you have the enthusiasm of us amateurs, just with more storage, materials & skill.
 Got the chaps number so let him know i can put a "last chance saloon" offer if its the chainsaw otherwise.
 On the bright side, there are plenty of people who want to save her so by law of averages one of us should find her a good home for a while. Just hope that home involves restoring, upgrading & doing 40+knots again someday


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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 11:57am
Shame, but there will always be another project. Thank you for trying guys.


Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 20 February 2009 at 11:11am
Good morning,
As you know, David E-P and myself started the ball rolling with a view to get 245 from Southampton to Lowestoft.
Due to overwidth problems however, this was not possible, despite examining every possibility available to us.
David and I would like to close the book on our part in this project, and say thank you to all who have been so kind as to offer pledges.
These pledges will now be considered withdrawn, and we thank you once again for your support.
The owner of 245, Ian, advises that the boat will move from his berth this Sunday, to a berth further down the Itchen.
The new owner is, apparently, going to replace the on deck structure with a more MTB style superstructure, and continue to use the boat as a house boat.
 
We will endeavour to update you on 245 as time and effort permit.
 
Thank you.
 
David Earle-Payne.
Richard Hellyer.


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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 28 February 2009 at 2:55am

Well done in your stirling efforts so far gents!! So long as 245 has a good home & a future then pass mine & a lot of others best wishes to her new owner. If they cant cope then my number is easily found.

 Find myself in need of a getaway right now but only did the basic sums today & could have been tragic if they were wrong. Only need as something i can escape to a couple of days a week & buy a warboat a few more years.
  First choice would have to be a whaleback, or a dog if there was more than half of one left. A vosper would be nice though as her hull could be restored with a few volunteers.
 Got carte blanche on mahogany at my local recycling centre but still hunting storage before i make any promises


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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 9:07am

Richard sent these latest images over to be posted. MTB 245 appears to have settled in at her new moorings - but not much TLC is yet in evidence. We all hope that she does not deteriorate like MTB 458 - see posting at   http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=625&PID=6695#6695 - http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=625&PID=6695#6695



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Pioneer - Forum Moderator


Posted By: Tim Deacon
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 10:40am
Hi!
I'm not quite sure what the current situation is with '245' (as of 14.07.09!), but I have been following the saga! I was contacted recently by a lady from Barcelona, who is the daughter of the original owner after WW2 and is VERY interested in '245' and her history. She was a very young girl when she lived on '245' and is trying to put the story of the boat in context and is very keen to contact the current owner(s). I am endeavouring today to go down to the boat and contact the owner and give him/her all the information I have. The lady in question also lived on 'MASB 26' in 1948 on the mooring where 'Sungo' and 'Mahaba' are now and has some photos there! Anyone know what happened to MASB 26?
MTB 245 has won some 'gongs' when in service (as did MASB 26) and it would be wonderful to preserve such a fine boat with such history! What a shame she couldn't be moved to Norfolk for restoration! Hey Ho, that's life!!
Tim Deacon
 


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 12:26pm
Hi Tim,
 
Many thanks the above, here is the best place to start any enquiry for sure, hope the new owner of 245 will take care of her, a lot of interest in doing something for her at the start of the year, albeit problems came up re transport.
 
Johnk


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 10 October 2009 at 12:09am
Anyone got an update on this old girl? If she's heading down 458's & 145's path then give her owner my number while she's viable. Hopefully she's safe & well in the care of a capable & understanding owner!?? Cudos to the succesful warboat projects but with hindsight we'd have a seaworthy dogboat & a Coastal forces memorial flotilla. With our ever brave navy struggling to keep up to date & world class it falls to us professional civilians & amatuers to help keep the history alive.


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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 10 October 2009 at 9:12pm
Hi Again,
 
Yes, given all offered before like Jimmy would like to know how she is getting on, those damn width restrictions! but if being looked after there, as before, no problem, could "we" impose on on Richard to take another look and some pics? much appreciated,
 
Johnk


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 16 October 2009 at 3:41am
In my limited experience.. Anyone who enjoys learning the nearly forgotten art of the shipwright & believes in the project they undertake, Well...headaches & stress will be abundent. Cruising in a warboat that you saved with your own two hands.... Haven't felt that yet but i imagine it will be fantastic. Hope that dogboats saveable by the time i've cut my teeth

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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 13 December 2009 at 2:14pm
Appreciate not much time since last but any news on the 245?
 
Johnk


Posted By: burgundyben
Date Posted: 24 January 2010 at 5:28pm
I had a wander past 245 today while looking for another boat, I took a few pics.
 
My opinion is that she is as rotten as a pear, at least the hull planking is. She wont be going anywhere by sea, the chap repairing the gate to the boatyard thought she had been abandoned.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Its not all bad, we've got MTB102, HSL102 and MGB81 all in fine form.
 
 


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Napier Lion engine wanted.


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 25 January 2010 at 11:21pm
Hi there,
 
What a great pity, great effort to look at saving her at the beggining of last year,problem was as we can see from the start of the thread, trying to get her away by road....quite agree unless on a pontoon not going on her own hull.... I would guess even if you could lift her, might be tricky as we know from previous vessels. But quite agree, we do have MTB 102 and soon HDML Medusa plus HSL and MGB 81, hope to see these underway at some stage soon. Post in other places of people perhaps looking to take on projects, always a lot of caveats but at least if people try some will suceed.
 
Johnk


Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 26 January 2010 at 11:57pm
An amazing boat with a real history....

  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/2621121/Commander-Douglas-Hunt.html - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/2621121/Commander-Douglas-Hunt.html





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Don


Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame?


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 27 January 2010 at 10:48am
Hi there,
 
Yes, quite right, just read the piece again, although of course it is the man or men that matter, second is the craft, appreciate attempt last year and she dose appear the worse for ware, weather really in a year it has changed that much don't know, it was a before this issue of transport with plan to get to Newsons of course, weather anything more local I don't know, of course great work at Hythe but Medusa still on the slip and I believe due to shut down post the project, I know, saying what a lot do, what a pity......
 
Johnk


Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 27 January 2010 at 10:37pm
Just a few questions that may have bearing on anyone moving a big boat.  I'd apprexciate any informed info  just in case we ruin into this again....

1).   Reading the blurb on the Highways agency,

The maximum permitted limits for STGO operations are 6.1m width, 30m length and 150,00kg weight. Outside these limits requires a Vehicle Special Order is required. Approval is not automatic and is at the discretion of the Highways Agency. Use form https://www.esdal.com/public/securefileservlet?method=getDownloadContent&itemid=3&downloadType=698001 - BE16 .

So moving a load wider than 6.1  meters is possible....  with permission  from the Highways agency of course. Max Length is 30m and the height is no real problem.


2). Would it possible to remove her superstructure and stand a boat on her side. - subject to a suitable cradle & bracing?  It might/would get around the Width issue.

Is this correct?

Cheers



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Don


Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame?


Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 27 January 2010 at 11:09pm
Don Hi,
The issues raised regarding the potential move of 245 last year was that over the 6.1m width, exceptional permission is only granted to / or from the nearest port. So as the originating departure point is a port, and the destination is also a port, road transport permission would not be granted. Height restrictions do apply as for any road transport (16 feet I think)

Regards,

David


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David Earle-Payne
Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot!


Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 12:51am
Hi David,

Thanks for the update.    I looked up the the 1941 Vospers ( MTB's 222-245) and it seems that  they were likely to be 71ft 1/2 in x 19ft 7in

I've looked at all the early Vospers and none are over the 6.1 meter  (20.01ft) width rule.

So under the 6.1 meter rule and "For loads of widths of 5.0 to 6.1m operators need to complete form https://www.esdal.com/public/securefileservlet?method=getDownloadContent&itemid=10&downloadtype=698001 - VR1 ."  No Vehicle Special Order is required.

I'm sure I've missing something here....  I normally do.

Regards

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Don


Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame?


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 7:57am
Head spinning a bit with all these numbers! presume the vessel was measured back in 2009, can see what the agency is saying, not wanting to block the roads, but as before, she could not be towed on her own hull, but any way, unless "we" are going to have another go....still could be of interst as you say for another vessel.
 
Johnk


Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 1:24pm
We went down this "road" in depth last time.
The only way to move that boat is by sea and that would be very expensive.
To move by road if permission were granted, would involve removal and
replacement of road "furniture" which would ratchet up the price no end.
It is debateable as to the hull withstanding such a trip. Mega bucks involved
however you do it unless you have someone around Southampton water to
do the job.
Richard.


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If it ain't broke don't fix it!


Posted By: burgundyben
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 3:24pm
Either way moving that boat would involve mega mega cost. Tens of thousands of £££s.
 
I suspect if you wanted to move that boat by sea the Southampton Port Authority would require some pretty extensive measures to be taken in order to prevent her sinking in the shipping channel.
 
The phots I took do not really convey very well how rotten the planking is,  I've 10 years of practical experience with my own much smaller wooden craft, I can tell you that boat is very poorly.
 
We have a broad cross section of MTB, HSL, HDML and MGB in public or charitable ownership that are well maintained and operated.  Let's focus on supporting those.
 
Let me tell you a story about an old MFV, Danish, Oak on Oak, about 80 ft, it had been moored on a mud berth as a houseboat for many years, unable to find a buyer the owners gave her away. Fella turned up with a tug, a diver looked over her and she was taken in tow.  Some petrol driven pumps were put on board that were thought to be of a reasonable size.  The planks were effectively caulked with mud, the putty had gone and the cotton rotted.  Moving for the first time in years washed the mud from her seams.  She sank. In the Western Solent.  Exactly on the path of the Lymington to Yarmouth Ferry. The week before the Round the Island Race.  Trinity House laid two cardinal marks. Later she was wire dragged to destruction.
 
 


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Napier Lion engine wanted.


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 3:36pm
Yes, I quite agree we should support these fine vessels, but always carefully consider any more, we have lost so much and with relatively little left, so easy to lose things, but of course hard work to keep. Just had a Dunkirk little ship into the marina at Chatham, the Duchess ex Shoreham lifeboat, going to small gains at Canvey for work before 70th anniversary run this year, great to see.
 
Johnk


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 3:38pm
sorry correction to my last it is Dowager
 
Johnk


Posted By: Pathfinder
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 3:40pm
Gentlemen,
The only practical way to work on this boat is to have her lifted out in the yard where she is presently lying.
Build a plastic cover over her.
I have my doubts that she can be successfully lifted, without damage.
Then you will need £250,000.00 in the bank to start the work,,etc etc

Still interested..we can approach the yard..?


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Pathfinder - Forum Moderator


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 5:02pm
Indeed, lifting could be very difficult, travel hoist and multi-stropped at least, and then as you say a chunk of cash, for skills, materials and equipment, has been done of course but for a few for that reason, small change if you are the Cutty Sark but there it is, many thanks,
 
Johnk


Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 8:36pm
Richard,
I think £250,000 is very light but you have the right idea.
 
Richard.
 


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If it ain't broke don't fix it!


Posted By: Pathfinder
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 9:06pm
Have a look at the boats for sale..a new boat at a good price..

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Pathfinder - Forum Moderator


Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 10:29pm
That is certainly the easy way out. All the boxes ticked and ready to rock and roll. It'll cost that much to move 245!
 
Richard.


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If it ain't broke don't fix it!


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 29 January 2010 at 10:07am
Hi there,
 
Yes, can quite see and understand and I certainly don't have the cash to hand, just that we did look at trying to save her last year, yes the transport issue did not help, and I could only pledge my small bit along with others, and again I do not forget for one moment what we have and what great work is being done for MTB 102, HDML Medusa, just it seems so much else of our maritime heritage is biting the dust, with some vessels having buckets of cash poured over them, whilst others like 245 just rot, any way,

Johnk


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 1:16am
Sorry i'v been away for a while folks. A few serious questions about this old girl...
 
1. How much could she be aquired for?
2. How much to keep her there for a while?
3. Will she stay afloat while cash is freed up & all the other gubbins?
4. How many linear metres(dammit i still work in feet & inches) of timber, number of screws, roves ect will she need to stabilise her?
5. How many hours would it take for me & my 2 apprentices to do all of the above? The longview would be full restoration but talking about the initial hit of stopping the rot!
 
 I have access to a few well seasoned oak trees for keel ect but obviously dont know any farmers with mahogany up for grabs. I have the joinery skills & finally getting the money to make a big push on one of these old boats in my own imitable way. My apprentices are as passionate as me with old boats so i have to sort digs, food & beer. Somebody give me some serious figures without the £45 an hour shipwrights charge. Got a clear few days in about 3 weeks if anyone can get me figures & a good look at her


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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 3:02am
Richard H. Could you pm me some details about this one please? Call you in week for a chat about the old girl & sorry about time & not saving a message to pm you from

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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: Pathfinder
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 9:53am
Jimmy,
You have caught me in the process of moving house..
The situation as I understand it with 245 is that she was bought for £500 and moved to her present berth for restoration.
The owner appears to have abandoned her, as the people at the yard I have spoken to are not very happy about it all.
I imagine that, with appropriate clearance from the legal eagles, you could probably aquire 245 for next to nothing...BUT the yard owner would have strings attached, as he doesnt want to have to remove her himself.
I will approach the yard and see what the latest situation is and let you know.
I hear what you say about expertise, but the biggest problem is going to be the very expensive road ahead..and realistically you will need a shed full of money to get her to a stable condition, if she is capable of being stabilised now.
Will let you know..

Richard H


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Pathfinder - Forum Moderator


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 12:29pm
Yes, indeed, from the pics as you can see the outer hull planks seem quite to very bad! just to be friendly so to speak, do be aware!
 
Johnk


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 6:35am

Thanks Richard!

 Quiet understand that if she's been dumped on a business that she's hitting them in the pocket with lost fees. All said she is still afloat & has to be worth a look & a couple of days doing the sums before writing her off if its that bad. Tell me her keels oak as got a supply of seasoned trees. Could make new one with chainsaw & drawknife but fitting it will be a new challenge.  
 My trouble is that i can get cashflow, materials ect but never in one big hit or i'd be writing Clive a cheque. At the very worst, if she's bodged up for a while until funds build up.. at least she's still around to fix. When she's chopped up & gone she's gone forever!
  My van threw half its axle across the road today without warning so at least 5 days behind. Tell the yard that there is interest in saving her though & please dont chop her until had a look.
 If your busy then send me contact details or pass my number to yard. No promises until i've ferreted round the bilges ect but the interest is there & best of British luck to all


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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 9:21pm
Jimmy,
Just keep putting little bits of cash aside in my bank and in the end you can have a boatWink
 
where would you work on 245?


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masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/


Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 06 March 2010 at 6:49pm
Hi All,
 
Just heard from John Weller of HDML Medusa, that 245 has now sunk at her mooring, very regretable to say the least, John was asking if anything could be done, well apart from getting her afloat again if possible and not damaged very badly, but as said before, what then? she clearly had problems with the hull from the recent pics here, with no where to keep her and of course at the least care for her, long term.....as before trying to save our historic ships is a great struggle of course, but still, another ship representing our coastal forces appears to have bitten the dust,
 
Johnk


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 10 March 2010 at 8:02pm
Who do i talk to about her??
   Find myself looking for digs in a few months & fancy a challenge. Worth a look before she's pulled to bits & put in a skip. pm or email me about her, bit busy this week so too tired to surf net..cheers


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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 01 June 2010 at 12:14am
Is this old girl still around or have they chopped her?

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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 06 October 2010 at 12:29am
So has 245 been chopped up?

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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: burgundyben
Date Posted: 06 October 2010 at 9:40am
I'm not sure, but if you drive over the road bridge nearby you cannot see the superstructure, I thought I could see a bit of the hull, I think perhaps chopping up is underway.
 
I didnt have the time to go and look in the yard.


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Napier Lion engine wanted.


Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 08 December 2010 at 12:47am
Let me know if you hear any more on her. Reckon an old girl like this would make a good holiday let if patched to good standards. at least she'd pay her way to restoration like that. If she's totalled, i could flat pack the good bits in my workshop & start collecting timber. Doing a line of narrowboat sized(to fit not as big as) oak figureheads to trade for mahogany planks. Can't get so'ton way for 2 weeks but if anyones got contact details for the yard it would be a good start

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A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money


Posted By: kenna222
Date Posted: 14 January 2016 at 5:09pm
Hi Tim, just came across this post and wondered if the Priory Avenue mooring photos from 1948 mentioned are available anywhere. Thanks again for the other recent info.
kenna222



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