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Building an E-Boat

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johnk View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 February 2011 at 11:48pm
Hi Bill,
 
Planned to post eleswhere on HSL 145 and will, but saw you last on this subject, went a bit quiet for a while there! very interesting your comments, just heard from the group doing S130, hope to have an update on there web-site soon apparently. I have to confess myself still thinking on about replicas and re-builds of the D, just thoughts which of course are very cheap! I always acknowledge the existing craft we do have, MTB 102, HDML Medusa etc....and am involved in other projects so tied up for the moment.....but thanks again,
 
Johnk
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2011 at 8:16pm
Hello All. I would like to throw in my five pen'th into this discusion.
As it involves two boats. I will begin with The dogboat.towards the end of the war I had a passion for this vessel assuming it was the be all and end all to all war time craft. I have made many models of this craft Half models Desk models and working models. In 1946 one came into my home prt of Goole a gift though on loan I was a sea scout. The vessel'snumber was 741 but it was named Honeysuckle after the corvette which my home town bought for the War effort. After ending my apprenticeship I joined the RAF marine division . I still had a love for this vessel. but then went through a phase where I once thought myself as a traitor. For reading about the chine boats versus the displacement boats made me wonder. Which in fact was the better boat during the war?There is no doubt that the chine boats ,also their crews suffered badly in heavy seas. Whereas the E boat was as one with the sea.It was in my opinion the ultimate vessel.
What puzzles me is when I have spoken to designers of power craft (I have met many)I have put forward this question, Why was the Eboat such a great success. They on the whole come up with the same answer "Horse power."  This is not true. For I believe the Lursen Efekt adjustable wing rudders been the true answer. He found by placing the wing rudders directly behind the prop Then at speed angling both rudders at 30 degrees outwards. It would serve two purposes. One (as no doubt most readers will know) It brought the bow down and the ship would run level. Not only that but"solid"water would be directed on the prop. Giving a better bite. Over the years I have made a study of this and found not one commercial designer use this method. but stick steadfastly to chine boats. most of which you will see every day badly trimmed and not running level
Regarding building form new one of these vessels Modern day practice of composite ship building has been to use a foam core with Kevlar outer skin and an inner skin of carbon fibre. Then under controlled conditions(usually in a oven ) time allowed for the resins to cure. This type I have knowledge of but although desingned by one of the best designers and it came out of the mould way below design weight It was a disaster.
So my feelings on replica work would be to build it as the original was built.
I did know of a replica Eboat which visited our waters in the mid 80's Built of steel. Slightly diferent profile above the WL but the same lines below and three 20 cyl Mercedec plus the Lurson efekt rudders
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johnk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2007 at 5:56pm

No problem Clive, we all await 32 coming out and she will be a great site out and about, do say if you get down south and we can arrange something her at Chatham.

 

JohnK

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clive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2007 at 5:10pm
Thanks for the insight John, the money involved is amazing but she will be a fine vessel when complete, I have breathed in so many times regarding costs involved with '32 I am waiting for my trousers to burst!
masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/
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johnk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2007 at 4:34pm

Hi Clive,

Well, at least the two C's have a use a the moment, so a watching brief on them perhaps. Regards Ryde she is still in with a chance, local guys are working to save her, she is not in the best of nick but was very well built and so has a good chance but is very touch and go. In comparision to MQ, perhaps worse in that she was dumped outside the mill pond and although floated once a year for a while, was full of mud and .....when we got her. As you will see from the web-site, www.medwayqueen.co.uk, we have now dismantled her to her component parts ready for the new hull, when it starts, costs, well, we spent 280,000 on the dismantling, which we had of course saved/raised, and over the years some 200,000 in preservation costs, we have some 100,000 in the bank, but a lot more to raise in partnership funding for the lottery grant pluse the final fit out!. The money spent on the dismantling will count as partnership funding though. Hope this was of interest,

 

JohK

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clive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2007 at 11:49am

I think the two 'c' are houseboats.

John, how about the P.S. Ryde? she would make a nice houseboat. I assume she is way beyond repair but how did the MQ compare when the work was started and are you allowed to tell us how much 'cash' she has cost so far (never mind the free man hours)

masbie something in the water.   www.freewebs.com/masb32/
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johnk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2007 at 11:10am

Hi all,

 

Just read all the above, all good stuff, all really answered above, MTB 102 operate as a charity, covering costs of running from donations and hard un-paid work!, MGB 81 is up for sale last I heard, was part of a commercial chartering company. This discussion is very relavent to my other interest the paddle steamer Medway Queen, we are in interesting talks with the lottery fund on methods of re-build and historic content! don't get me started on that here!. I agree of course re the D and the remains of 030, but equally re Clive and the C etc, if there are only two left, are  they as houseboats being used or abandoned?, then this has been said before I know but..should BMPT and us and any one else interested, try and get something done, before we lose the last of kind, like 030, understand it needs "someone" and it would have to be lead by others than me, but would pitch in if given a plan. Await comments,

JohnK

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operose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote operose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2007 at 11:29am

BBQ off shore :)

I met a chap once who'd bought an amphibious tank and did just that off the beach near Brighton :)

It would certainly be a niche in the market not yet exploited; "Off Shore BBQ aboard authentic WWII Power Boat - £1000.00 a head! (bring own sausages)"

I've looked at the pictures of 030 now...what a loss!  Amazing how quickly the hull has deteriorated to practically nothing.  There's a boat with a fairly similar hull-shape moored in Penzance, though (or there was a few months ago when I visited)...does anybody know what it is?

I think the question of historical content is a pertinent one; I've read of "restorations" entailing new planking, frames, decks and superstructure - is that really a restoration?  It's tempting to go to the HLF and say "I want to build a WWII boat from scratch, will you fund it, please?", as the end result would, arguably, be the same as a typical restoration...if only there were more hours in the day, I'd do it myself :)

Again, thanks for indulging me,

O

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northeastuser View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northeastuser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2007 at 1:29am

Iím sure there are many that use this forum and even more who donít that have toyed with the idea of constructing a new ĎDí boat. I doubt many would come forward and admit it for fear of ridicule. ( feel free to PM me and we will form a self help group!)

What to do with the finished vessel? Well it would have to generate an income to become self sustainable. Other than that. Well I guess invite your friends for a BBQ offshore!! What ever you decide to do with it I suspect that constructing the hull would be the cheap bit!

030 is the boat featured elsewhere on this forum burned out at Chatham. A Sad sight. I believe she will be cleared away soon due to re-development in the area.

Composite construction is where the frames are built of steel ( or aluminium in the case of the German S130) with a wood hull bolted or screwed to the frames. I seem to remember reading that they were planked with Scottish oak before the war! The Cutty Sark is a classic example of composite construction.

I suspect that the reason for the high cost of the restoration of the S130 is that it will involve de-planking the vessel to enable the frames to be repaired. Very expensive and time consuming.

It makes you wonder how much historical content the re-built hull will contain.

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operose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote operose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2007 at 10:55pm

Hello all,

  many thanks for your thoughts thus far - they make for interesting reading :)  Armed with the term "Schnellbootwaffe", I managed to track down these two sites; http://www.pt-boat.com/ who has some CAD drawings of e-boat frames and http://www.christian-schmidt-fachbuchhandlung.de/product_inf o.php?products_id=2519&language=en&osCsid=7b5c3c43e3 f8bec387f3e0e64434a226, which is a 2-sheet, 1:25 scale plan for a late model e-boat, although you have to pay some 25 euro's for the pleasure...

   Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by composite construction?  I've been to look at S130 down near Plymouth - it's a massive boat and has various dubious patches on the hull...4 million sounds an incredible sum though...surely you could just build an entirely new boat for that!?

  The thing that confuses me, though, is what do the owners of these big motorboats like MTB-102 and MGB-81 *do* with them?  Do they charter them or hire them out for film work or something?  I would have thought that their running costs compared to the income the generate must be painfully disproportionate?  I personally think that building a replica of a Fairmile D would be a culturally laudable pursuit, but what would you do with it once you'd built it?

  Does anybody have any more details or pictures of LRRC 030?

Many thanks,

Best Regards,

O

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