Napier Lion wanted.

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   Hello everyone.
I have two speed boats built by Scott Paine, a 23 footer that was at Marchwood for a while and listed on the website here as a Sea Arrow and another which I subsequently came across that is 20 foot.
I really want a period engine for both and I think a napier sea lion would go veyr well in the 23 footer, does anyone know of one that is available, a runner or nearly a runner and not been sectioned open like most in the museums?
Thanks
ben

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burgundyben Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote burgundyben Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Napier Lion wanted. Posted: 14 March 2007 at 10:39am
	Hello everyone. I have two speed boats built by Scott Paine, a 23 footer that was at Marchwood for a while and listed on the website here as a Sea Arrow and another which I subsequently came across that is 20 foot. I really want a period engine for both and I think a napier sea lion would go veyr well in the 23 footer, does anyone know of one that is available, a runner or nearly a runner and not been sectioned open like most in the museums? Thanks ben
	Napier Lion engine wanted.

AndyS Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 09 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 81	Post Options Post Reply Quote AndyS Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 March 2007 at 2:13pm
	Welcome to the forum Do you have any more information on these boats? I might be able to do some identification on them and advise on original engine. Do you have some photos? Many thanks Andy

Alex Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 14 September 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alex Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 March 2007 at 2:42pm
	If you want a Napier engine a good place to start might be talking Stanley Man the vintage Bentley dealer who runs a 1920's Bentley with a Napier motor in it. Might work. Good luck, Alex.

burgundyben Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote burgundyben Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 March 2007 at 2:14pm
	The first boat is twenty three feet long and I bought from Phil Clapburn about 18 months ago, it was one he started to restore but did not finish, its show here http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boat%20histories/Other_boats/other_bo ats.htm Its very similar to Scott Paine's own boat Panther III, I have some pictures of here, still in existence (albeit it quite poorly) with his grandson in America, Panther III is fitted with a Graymarine 330, I think that is 330 cubic inches not 330 HP. this is the boat I would like to find a Napier Lion for. The second I purchased about a year ago, it was on ebay, had been in a barn in Wales for about 30 years, had quite a job getting it out! Its 20 feet six inches long, its in quite a state, hull is mostly ok but the deck has had it, it does have 2 very nice oval cockpits, I do know that this one was fitted with a straight six graymarine engine that was stolen from the previous owner. It will be a long time before I get going on this boat. I have spoken to Chris Williams that runs the red napier bentley a number of times, he has a spare engine but its missing pistons and he wants £18,000 eeek! I was not aware that Stanley Mann had one, I will enquire. There is quite a few Lions in museums, some sectioned (argh!) and mostly not available. I'd buy a whole boat if it had one in! Other than my two BPBC speed boats, I know of one in France called Miss Paris, there is Panther III in America and I think one in Italy with a stepped hull pictured in Classic boat a few years ago, one in Science Museum and one in Maritime Museum (both with Lions). Any other's I'd like to hear about. Edited by burgundyben
	Napier Lion engine wanted.

jimmy p Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 26 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 283	Post Options Post Reply Quote jimmy p Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 March 2007 at 3:16am
	Bloody hell thats steep mate! Theres a guy in Gloucester selling merlins complete at £18k for rebuild (albiet running but not airworthy) try & find the number for you. One of the American guys on the forum(PT boat restorer) reckons he's had marinised Packards for £2500 each, if you can get them go for it!! That said not sure how much Napiers wiegh? Guessing that if they wiegh as much as a marinised packard then putting them in a 23footer may not be wise. All said & done though if it works then fairplay. Mr Scott-payne was as visionary as Tesla so if he built it & proved it then none of us can argue! All the best with your project
	A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money

Alex Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 14 September 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17	Post Options Post Reply Quote Alex Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2007 at 12:12pm
	Hi Ben, It could well be that the williams car and the one I've seen in Stanley Man's care are one and the same. I doubt there are two! Have you thought of using a Rover Meteor engine? It's a normaly asperated (no blower or turbo) version of a Merlin, built for use in tanks....Centurian mostly. These are available in the tractor pulling world which is served by several magazines and websites, for between two and four thousand pounds in running order. They have an automotive cam profile and so have a wider more flexible power and torque delivery than an aero engine variant, I would have thought this would have made them more suited to marineisation. Depending on which mark, you will find they produce between six and eight hundred BHP ish.....would that be enough? good luck, Alex.

burgundyben Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote burgundyben Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2007 at 1:43pm
	Alex, With out a doubt 6 to 8 hundred HP would be enough..... I had thought about a meteor, for several reasons a meteor is much easier to fit than a merlin, lack of reduction and blower. Price of course is much less for a meteor. I have thought about it..but its Lion that Scott Paine had so much history with. the other option would be Scripps, Brookes, Meadows all quite hard to find. Scott Paine was instrumental in the creation of the Puma racing class, the first one design power boat for racing, they used the Siddeley Puma engine, one of these would be very appropriate.
	Napier Lion engine wanted.

rozm2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 07 June 2006 Status: Offline Points: 99	Post Options Post Reply Quote rozm2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 March 2007 at 11:02am
	Perpahs this may be of use: http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/lane/xvo73/forsale.htm via www.vintageknowledge.co.uk advert reads: For Sale. For sale a Napier lion 500HP 12 cylinder engine. One set of pistons and rods. + one engine overhaul manual. Contact: David Harrison. Tel: 01536 770892 Email: drharrisonfirst@yahoo.co.uk Date Posted: 22 Feb 2007 Hope it's of use?

northeastuser Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 446	Post Options Post Reply Quote northeastuser Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 March 2007 at 5:08pm
	wow i want it lol..i wonder how much?

burgundyben Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote burgundyben Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 March 2007 at 9:20pm
	Thank you very much. I have spoken to the chap today, he has a set of conrods and pistons only, sadly not a complete engine. It seems that these parts came from a lion engine thats fitted to a 1920's racing boat that is now somewhere in a museum in France. It seems that a running Lion may well be out of reach for me financially, about £20k or £30k!
	Napier Lion engine wanted.