Photo gallery of my little ST
Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: Boats (In alphabetical order)
Forum Name: Seaplane Tenders
Forum Description: Discussion on Seaplane Tenders
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=123
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 5:17pm
Topic: Photo gallery of my little ST
Posted By: dgray
Subject: Photo gallery of my little ST
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 11:11am
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I've finally managed to organise some photos, the PC and some time to create a little album and upload it. The boat I have, I bought 2 years ago (well swapped for an old landrover & a wrecked WM20 (BSA)). Phillip Simons, historian to the BMPT has recognised her as ex 'Phoenix'. The consensus is that she was a 37'6" Seaplane tender, cut back to 32' (as her transom is ply and no works/yard number can be found). Given the date of the ply used used in the conversion to a cruiser, it appears that this occured in 1954 I have the original brass BP stamped switches and switch panel & both interior and navigation lights. I'll get them photographed next week. I'll also get some of the new portside decks & cabin side & hardwood fwd cabin. The album is at http://www.rania.co.uk/ST-Phoenix/Old/ Hope you enjoy the photos. Cheers ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Replies:
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 1:30pm
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Hi Don Phoenix seems a popular name for ex RAF service craft,it being the name of RTTL 2751 also.Makes sense I suppose,a resurrected firebird could be symbolic of saving lives of crews of crashed aircraft.What's her current name? Regards Christian |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 1:47pm
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Hi Christian, I haven't thought about a name as I had hoped to find a works/yard number on her somewhere. That must have been on the missing 7'6". Ugly duckling looks about the most appropriate at present. I think Phoenix may also refer to starting a new civillian life post RAF. Do you have any more photos of 2548 or the Whaleback? I'd say you could do an album on each. I you decide to, I've got a load of free webspace if you want. I found a brilliant (free photo ) album generator that took 45 minutes from downloading the program to having the album created & online. Guaranteed idiot proof! (http://www.ornj.net/) I've bot a load of photos of seaplane tenders and I'll create another album of those. Any photos welcome!! Cheers Don ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 2:25pm
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How about the T E Shaw?This was Lawrence's pseudonym whilst testing the prototype.Thanks for the online album tip. Regards,Christian |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 2:31pm
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Good one, Given the boat has 7'6" chopped off and making a weak anagram of T E Shaw..... call it "ThE Saw"!! Then again....an unlikely name for a boat!! Cheers ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 2:35pm
| SUPERB! |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 10:28am
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I've updated the site with photos of other boats at: http://www.rania.co.uk/ST/ ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 4:19pm
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Just thinking about the your boat. Are the shaft logs still original? There is a chance that she was originally 32' as a seaplane tender or service launch. There are several different configurations of boats that were constructed. Unfortunately I do not have my records with me at the moment. But may be able to check on the new year. If the shafts, engines and rudders all look to be standard fit, then it is unlikely that she was shortened, as for the same power it would require re-aligning engines and shaft, new shafts, logs and suppporting structures, plus similar works for the steering arrangement. All a bit major when compared to some woodwork to re-build the transom. Regards |
Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 4:25pm
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Don Just saw your restoration photos and the engine location looks interesting so you may well be right about the shortening. Andy |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 13 November 2006 at 6:31pm
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Hi Andy, Sorry I just saw your message now. Apologies. I've uploaded 2 more photos of work to the hull planking. We used sapele as a replacement for the rotten mahogany. We've done the cabin roof in ply (as original) and are painted with deck paint. The cabin sides have been redone in lapped sapele planking which we hope to varnish. The decks are ply but will probably be sealed with epoxy as I plan to paint them. I wanted to use painted canvas but our attempt was less than succesfull. Perhaps we had the wrong canvas that was too coarse. We've repaired the chine as best we can but I think she'll have to be sheathed and epoxied to give strength. We are having the original aluminium water tanks and steel fuel tanks remade as they were completely rotten. We still need to fit out the interior but it's pretty sound. We will fit glazing next week and she'll be watertight for the first time in years. Photos are at: http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/Workinprogress2/ Still tons to do including finding some 70+hp 4 cylinder motors and boxes. The old Ford 6 cylinder Turbo diesels/boxes were too heavy but I'd like to use them for a 40.5' BPB ST that I'm buying (that has no motors). Any idea how to find out the HP ratings for the old fords? They need to be a minimum of 120hp to be same as original Perkins S6-M's I'm told. Regards Don |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 13 November 2006 at 7:27pm
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Hi Don 6-cyl Ford turbodiesels of the modern era are about 160hp, so yours probably won't be far off this figure I think. The old Perkins were indeed 120hp but were de-tuned to 100hp in service to avoid reliability problems, so that may affect your purchase decision. Rgds, Christian. |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 14 November 2006 at 12:36am
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Thanks Christian. Thet aren't exactly cutting edge as you can see: http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/MySeaplaneTenderOld/oldsmokeyno1.jpg - http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/MySeaplaneTenderOld/ oldsmokeyno1.jpg http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/MySeaplaneTenderOld/oldsmokeyno2.jpg - http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/MySeaplaneTenderOld/ oldsmokeyno2.jpg Anybody recognise them? So, the 40.5' wide beam had effectively 2 x 100 hp ( same HP as the Meadows petrols in the 37.5 Narrow beam?) and reached 20+ knots. Not too bad for a big old wooden boat. Kind Regards Don ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 14 November 2006 at 12:38am
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Sorry, When you sometimes paste url's it adds an unwanted space. Please remove the space from before the 'oldsmokeyno1.' in both url's. Regards Don |
Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 14 November 2006 at 8:42am
I fixed it for you Don ------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 14 November 2006 at 8:50am
| They look like they could be 6.22L Ford 2725 ETs .If they are they are rated to 185hp @2600rpm. The dimensions would be 1100mm long by 585mm tall. Which 40.5ft ST is it? Any pictures of the boat? |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 14 November 2006 at 8:54am
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Hi Christian, She is 'Che Sera' in Blackpool. An interesting boat. I just have to make room for her now.... Thanks for the info. Regards Don |
Posted By: rozm2
Date Posted: 14 November 2006 at 10:30am
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Looks good, that's quite some progress, on the engine front, since you only require 80 or so hp, perhaps you could look at some of the replacments that people put in old Landrovers, most are also available in marinised form, perkins prima, 3.3 l perkins, 3.3 mazda (same as perkins) and so on, they're all around 80-100hp and the perkins prima (2ltr turbo diesel-from a montego/maestro) would be very light indeed. The only problem is, I presume you'd want a pair ie counter rotating, but this must be possible?
Good news on Che Sera, she looks pretty good, would be a real shame if she'd have dissapeared. |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 14 November 2006 at 7:05pm
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Hi Rozm2, My plan was to simply buy a good 2nd hand pair with boxes. I think most modern engines are pretty reliable and I'd considered a Transit lump as they are quite low and that would suit the installation in this boat. I'd imagine Lancing Marine would be the people to contact about adaptor plates etc. Do you have any idea about the HP of 3.3 Perkins or the prima? Thanks ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 15 November 2006 at 8:28am
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Perkins Prima 2.0 Turbo is 80 Bhp (ala Montego) and in normally aspirated form around 50~60 Bhp. This was also a production Perkins engine for a while and was used in quite a few yachts. Note: Montego turbo engines can be tuned up a bit quite easily, especially when using an intercooler. Check out LandRover forums or Lancing on this. BR AndyS |
Posted By: rozm2
Date Posted: 15 November 2006 at 10:20am
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This site may help, it's got the specs of most conversion engines for landrovers, the perkins prima was available in marinised form, maybe you could find one of them? There's also the 2.8 Dihatsu engine, they're pretty agricultural looking and look like they'd be suited to a boat!
http://www.integerspin.co.uk/donor01.php?name=power - http://www.integerspin.co.uk/donor01.php?name=power |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 18 November 2006 at 11:48am
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Hi Rozm2, Thanks for the info. I'll get onto Perkins durung the week. Much appreciated
------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 11 December 2006 at 12:28am
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Hi All, Some later photos of my little ST. I've had replacement copies of the (mild steel) fuel and (aluminium) water tanks made. Planking just about completed but needs a few hundred more roves below the waterline  . Internal fitout will begin next hopefully.Photos are at: http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/Workinprogress3/ - www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/Workinprogress3/ Regards Don ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 11 December 2006 at 11:09am
| V Nice work. |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 11 December 2006 at 11:21am
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Agreed. Nice doggy too, and if I had one of those ancient Gold Wings and it got stuck in a rut I'd leave it there too! Will she look like an Imperial Airways ST when finished Don? |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 11 December 2006 at 1:34pm
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Thanks for kind comments.... I thought I'd put a picture of the doggy too keep up the interest of any wives/girlfriends who found themselves lost on these pages -lol. Agreed, the Gold Wing looks a little sad but will run again. Don't worry, I've got an old BSA WM20 (project), an M21 and an A7 ( all garaged!!). No room for the Wing yet. I'm planning to have her in pre-war RAF colours. Black hull, white/lt grey cabin roofs and decks and varnished cabin sites. Perhaps a small roundel but no service number as that, if it ever existed, isn't known. Regards ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 11 December 2006 at 2:03pm
| She's gonna look gorgeous. Just kidding about the 'Wing, I'm a bike nut too, love all bikes. The flat four on yours will never go wrong, bulletproof. |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 12 December 2006 at 8:52pm
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Thanks Pioneer. ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: rafwebfoot
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 10:24am
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Don, I notice from your pics that your 40 footer is missing the broad external doubler strake - if there are no signs of it ever being fitted then I doubt if she was RAF as all had this strake. I also noticed 2753s history on your database, did I send this or did it come from someone else? My old brains not what it used to be. ------------- FAIR WINDS AND A FAVOURABLE TIDE Donald |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 2:27pm
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Hi Donald, We've stripped the side back to bare planking in those photos. I apologise for my ignorance but I'm not sure what you mean by "broad external doubler strake". She looked similar to the boat http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/OtherSeaplaneTenders /st1622.jpg Is there a picture of this feature on one of the boats on http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/OtherSeaplaneTenders / ? I'm having a bit of a 'senior day' here. Where is 2753s history on the site? Kind Regards Don ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 2:47pm
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Hi Don The history is on this page; http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/RTTLAlbum/index2.html - http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/RTTLAlbum/index2.htm l row 4 column 2. My fault, Donald had given this to Dad and I'd pinched it and copied it, then chatted to you about the boat and had sent it to you at that time. The external doubler strake is what grown-ups call the hull belts, not worn by your ex Sea-Monarch or Imp. Airways ST. |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 3:16pm
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Hi Donald/Christian, I'll remove it. They were images I thought I'd pulled off the web. Please let me know if there are any more that shouldn't be there. Sincere apologies. Don |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 3:17pm
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Anyone got a photo of a 'hull belt'? I can't see any topside difference between mine and 1622 http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/OtherSeaplaneTenders /st1622.html Thanks ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 3:28pm
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Hi Don 1622 was a 41.5ft broad-beam type, they did not have them. Your boat is very similar to a 40ft narrow beam type (e.g. BPB ST 295 or Brooke Marine Zeta et al) but without the horizontal wooden rubbing strakes running along the hull sides, between the gunwhales and the chine strakes, which were particular to RAF (and other services) ST's. They were to stop big metal buoys stoving in the topsides. |
Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 3:30pm
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Don I think that Christian is corect that your boat should not have the rubber down the side. I have not seen any pictures of your type of boat with that feature. I think that they were mainly added to military boats that spent a long time up against the big admiralty mooring buoys. Your boat looks great as she is. unless you intend to bump up against pontoons then it is not required, but these types of hull are very bad for damage on hard edged pontoons. Just a pointer, ST1622 has quite a few constructional differences in the top sides as she is a later boat (I think one of the BPBCo built boats rather than local ones) and is 11'6" overall beam. Your boat is somewhere around the 8'6"~9' mark I think. Best regards AndyS |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 4:16pm
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This boat has none either or am I missing something. http://www.rania.co.uk/boat%20photos/ST/OtherSeaplaneTenders /magazineadvert1942.html 2753s photo replaced by nice one of a MAS boat. ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 6:07pm
| The ad shows a very early 37.5ft ST, they did not have them either. I think they were only fitted to the 40ft boats. |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 6:20pm
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I thought my little boat was mid-30's and more like the 37.7 ST than a 40' one in which case she wouldn't have had one anyway. What beam were the 40' ones? Yours Confused |
Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 6:23pm
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Don, Have you measured your boat length? From memory I think that it should be either 32' or 35' for the early flying boat tenders. AndyS
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Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 6:33pm
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Andy-Don's boat is 32ft but possibly shortened from a longer boat. Don-Perhaps Donald will clarify this for us all? |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 6:41pm
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I'll take a photo of her bottom sides as she seems to flatten out correctly for a 32' boat. If she were a 37.5 chopped down ( which I did think), it's likely that there would be little if any flat area aft at the P brackets. Does this make sense? I think it's down to Donald. I too doubt she was RAF, probably a private yacht. ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 7:13pm
| Having looked at the photo I would agree with Donald it is an Airways s.t. rather than R.A.F. that doesn't decry the fact that you are saving a lovely boat, power to your elbow |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 7:49pm
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you just need a sunderland flying boat now!! ------------- |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 30 May 2007 at 9:05pm
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An Empire flying boat, all you want to know about them here; http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mbcass/Flying%20Empires.pdf - http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mbcass/Flying%20Empires.pdf These guys would probably love to hear from you Don; http://www.imperial-airways.com/Menu_page.html - http://www.imperial-airways.com/Menu_page.html
I saved this from the original ad for your boat;
32' Seaplane Tender. Cruised, lived on and loved for the past 4 years. Built in 1938 by British Powerboat Company, Hythe for Imperial Airways. Designed by Hubert Scott-Paine (former world-speed record holder) and T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia). Double diagonal planing teak hull, based on scaled-
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Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 31 May 2007 at 7:58am
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Thanks Christian, My little 'orphan' boat probably isn't an Imperial Airways chaft either!! By the way, I didn't get the photo of 2772E from you, I found it at www.geocities.com/aj_p_joyce/2772_brighton1957.jpg Cheers ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |