Good books
Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: The Trust
Forum Description: Discussion about the Trust
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=304
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 7:57pm
Topic: Good books
Posted By: jimmy p
Subject: Good books
Date Posted: 26 March 2007 at 6:31am
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This Topic has been moved from 'Where are the Boats Now' (Admin) Thought i'd start this thread so everyone can review & recommend the books that they've mentioned on other posts. My library needs stocking up & doubtless other people also need pointers or a tip to a forgotten gem of a book. if they're really worth reading then tell us. Maybe a film thread but i'll be happy enough with a good read. Cheers..jim ------------- A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money |
Replies:
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 29 March 2007 at 9:45am
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Hi Jimmy and all! Well I just got my 1945 copy of "The battle of the narrow seas" by Cmdr Peter Scott, very good read and good pics etc, did what i always do and read the end first...interesting description of the meeting between two S Boats and the MTB's at the end of the war. Other classics; "We fought them in gunboats", bought mine over 25 years ago...always wondered if there was an uncensored version produced after the war? I have a very good book about PT boats in the Pacific, I will post the title soon. Ordered a "The little ships" should be arriving soon! Buy most books through Amazon...but always use the "used books" link, also Abebooks are good as its gives access to hundreds of small book shops which I prefer to buy from. Happy reading! Be nice to see a few more suggestions Mark ------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: northeastuser
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 11:45pm
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There are some nice pictures of vessels in the book Little Ships. Interesting to note they are unidentifiable due to all the hull numbers being scratched off the pictures!! Wartime secrecy? ------------- |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 05 May 2007 at 7:33pm
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here is on we should all have, I was looking for a copy for ages, I suppose they are like busses! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FAST-BOATS-AND-FLYING-BOATS-Biog-of-Hu bert-Scott-Paine_W0QQitemZ110121377022QQihZ001QQcategoryZ293 91QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FAST-BOATS-AND-FLYING-BOATS-Biog-of-Hu bert-Scott-Paine_W0QQitemZ110121377022QQihZ001QQcategoryZ293 91QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem there are 2 on amazon, £72.50 and £166.72 BARGAIN!!! ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: DMSmith
Date Posted: 06 May 2007 at 7:38pm
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Thanks for link to e.bay On a mad impulse I bought it. Somewhat cheaper than Amazon !!! Cheers ------------- Dave |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 06 May 2007 at 8:36pm
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Hi fatcabinboy, It is a really good book,if not only for the pictures!! regards, cheesychive. ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: DMSmith
Date Posted: 07 May 2007 at 9:46pm
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Oh no my secret's out! I forget on what grounds I chose my e.bay ID, but criteria must have involved grey matter removal. On a different tack, I enjoyed reading S-Boote by Jean-Phillipe Dallies-Labourdette. A good balance of technical info, War-time history, interesting diagrams and lots of photo's. To balance things out, with boats from our side, I also recommend "The Army's Navy" by David Habesh (self explanatory) and "The Unknown Fleet" by Reg Cooley (about the Army's Civilian Seamen in War and Peace). Both are proer books for grown-ups, (more words than pictures) and are about a part of Naval hisory I seldom see publicised. Happy reading ------------- Dave |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 07 May 2007 at 11:52pm
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Hi All Just finished reading Midnight Trader by Hugh Edwards, I was very surprised at how openly he discussed the whole smuggling scene in the Med at the time, it all seemed to be treated as a "normal" business. Good description of how he prepared Taifun (ex Ship That Died of Shame) for "work" including fitting her with 2 new Packards one of which seized up on a test run...but its the fuel consumption that makes you really think "...we had 43off 40 gallon fuel drums on deck to increase our range"!!!! thats about £7500 of "deck cargo" at todays prices! Picked up another on Ebay the other day "The Motorboat and Yachting manual" 1948 edition, complete with a nice fold out of the Bluebird II, also nice info on war boats including the J.S White built "Taifun" and lots of adverts for Makers incl Vospers, Brooke, Thornycroft etc and an advert for "Ex Government Craft" asking you to write in for details where you will receive immediate attention, oh happy days! The "S-Boote" book was very good, shame there dont seem to be too many books about S-boats around. Mark ------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 11 May 2007 at 12:42pm
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Would you beleive it, He must be in print! (I got mine from him) busses http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FAST-BOATS-AND-FLYING-BOATS-Biog-of-Hubert-Scott-Paine_W0QQitemZ110125624833QQihZ001QQcategoryZ29391QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FAST-BOATS-AND-FLYING-BOATS-Biog-of-Hu bert-Scott-Paine_W0QQitemZ110125624833QQihZ001QQcategoryZ293 91QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
!Posted By: David Earle-Pay
Date Posted: 12 May 2007 at 1:12am
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Hi, Not sure wether it qualifies as a 'book' but the latest edition of 'Classic Boat' (June) has an article entitled "The Flatpack Warships" i.e The Fairmile B's. ------------- David Earle-Payne Make it idiot proof, and then someone will make a better idiot! |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 12 May 2007 at 11:21am
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Hi Yep got my copy from him too!! £25 cant go wrong..as long as were not all buying the same copy! I will get a copy of wooden boat if I can find it...Ive often wondered if it was possible to build a "new" Fairmile if the plans still exist i.e. the elusive "D"! M ------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: DMSmith
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 8:24pm
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Guess the bookshop has a box full. Not an expert on compond interest but £14.95 cover price 1989, to £25.00 today doesn't seem that bad compared with the increase in RPI. Ref building a new D, has anyone out there built or thought of building a scale MTB/MGB, maybe 1/4 size or so? Might be an interesting exercise, especially to see how a smaller hull performs, etc.... Might need to modify accomodation and superstructure, unless you can find a midget to drive it.
------------- Dave |
Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 9:02pm
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Thought about it as a little scaled down mtb to use on river. its viable to the spitfire boys. Too many real ones needing help to worry about that for a while, maybe one day when the originals are all safe ------------- A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money |
Posted By: DMSmith
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 9:20pm
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Point taken, about saving originals, that has to be a priority. There are parallels with the aeroplane and train world as recent posts have proved. I'd like to believe that all originals could be saved but recent events worry me a little. I know how fast wooden boats can deteriorate and recent losses prove that unless a well kept boat is maintained that way it can soon be beyond economic repair to recommission for sea. Perhaps some more could be saved as static land based exhibits. Which brings me back on track. Are there any, published, books, lists etc.. of what ww2 craft survive and where?
------------- Dave |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 10:24pm
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Hi All Got copy of Fast Boats.... today, bad news is I may have read it in a couple of days! Very interesting, typical story of UK Govt incompetance...ignoring the need for decent engines before the war etc. Also just got "E-Boat Alert" by James Foster Tent about defending the D Day fleet from E Boats. Ref Survivor lists, there are certainly many lists of the individual types existing, Christain is the person to ask, also the Trust historian Phil Simons. Happy Reading
------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 10:43pm
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Hello marksaab, Re 'E-Boat Alert' I have found that if you read a few pages and find a glaring mistake it sours the rest of the book - there are a couple of howlers within the pages (HMS Scimitar was not one of the US four stackers) and later (S130 was certainly not 'broken up' at Wilmshaven) you can expect some later news on that particular boat!! It is a shame that James Foster Tent was not nearly as thorough in his research as the book suggests. ------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 11:29pm
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While building my model type 2 I have thought it would be easier to construct a 1/3 or 1/4 scale as the margin for error as far greater!! problem is a 3rd scale would only be 5 feet wide in the middle and 3 at the transom, mind you a 1/4 scale 15 foot open top boat with double diagonal 1/4 marine ply and a jet ski drive sounds interesting, hmmm. ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: jimmy p
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 12:42am
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Sounds like it could be fun Clive. Have trouble fitting in 506's bilges so may be a firebrigade job with a scaled down whaleback Also toyed with the idea of a 1:1 fibreglass replica that could be abused stupidly & blown up if a film company fancied the bill. Not the same as a wooden boat with her little imperfections though(or major imperfections with some). Think when all the originals safe i'll look into a scaled type two, could be a scream! Maybe even a race series to relieve the hassles of rebuilding originals. May as well add some fun to our efforts ------------- A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood, into which one throws money |
. Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 7:55am
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Hi there,
Interesting discussion above, John Lamberts book anatomy of the ship on the D has drawings and plans for the D, so possible? to re-build from there mayby, quite understand re saving what existis of course. Always seeing replica sailing ships so....but of course would cost a fair few pounds, and as I said should look to save what we have.
John |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 9:33am
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Hi All Did my usual reading habit with E Boat Alert and read a the end first, now doing the middle! I will look out for the errors!! I guess some will always be inevitable..I would have thought wartime needs produced some strange results...certainly on aircraft repairs where it was not unknown for one aircraft to be rebuilt from the front half of one and the back half of another! However the S-130 error is a bit bad!! Any news on the 3rd Volume of John Lamberts series? was it going to cover BPB boats? Happy reading! Mark
------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 9:38am
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A good read if you are interested in HDML/Fairmile B operations is "At Sea Level" by Geoffrey Searle (ISBN 1-85776-912-0). Covers his war career, mainly in the Med. ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 16 May 2007 at 3:53pm
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Hi Don Just got it from Amazon, £5.50 not bad! hope I dont read it as quick as the last one! M
------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 5:06pm
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Hi All New book about Vospers on Ebay..Item number is 200118224016
Mark
------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: Jacmac
Date Posted: 15 August 2007 at 9:54pm
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Hello I have recently read two small publications put together by the Dartmouth History Research Group, which I think some of you will find of great interest. The first is Paper 20 - Operation Fahrenheit: The Story of a Small-Scale Commando Raid by Michel Guillou. Without ruining the whole book, its essentially the details regarding an assault on a signal station in Brittany, using MTB 344 as transport. Quite a unique looking little boat - a lot smaller than the usual 68 - 73ft craft usually talked about. The second is paper 23 - The Secret War from the River Dart by Llyod Bott CBE. DSC. First Lieutenant MGB 502. This is the story of the RN's 15th MGB flotilla and the clandestine missions they engaged in from 1942 - 1945. Both of these are available from Dartmouth Museum or The Harbour Bookshop, Dartmouth. They cost between £3.00 and £4.50. I'm happy to buy and post to any members wishing to obtain a copy, just P.M me ok. Also, for anyone with an interest in RAF marine craft, Donald Smith's Post War Marine Craft always seems to appear on ebay every now and then - Well worth a look.  |
Posted By: ForumManager
Date Posted: 18 September 2007 at 5:10pm
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This Topic has been moved from 'Where are the Boats Now' ------------- Forum Manager |
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 19 September 2007 at 10:10pm
| Jacmac, curious about the "different" M.T.B. was she shorter than normal and did she look like a British Power Boat build,I ask because I am looking for info on a boat called "KALAN" which was built as a private Motor Yacht based on a B.P.B. M.T.B. only shorter which was requisitioned at the beginning of the War. |
Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 20 September 2007 at 8:26pm
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MTB344 experimental 60ft boat with twin screw stepped hull probably built by Thornycroft. 2 18in torpedoes and top speed around 40 knots. Built 1943. 345 and 346 are in British Coastal Forces of WW2 but these were 45ft versions and very similar to ww1 CMBs. Richard. ------------- If it ain't broke don't fix it! |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 20 September 2007 at 10:36pm
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 21 September 2007 at 4:57pm
| Re Kalan, moved to where are the boats now |
Posted By: dgray
Date Posted: 16 October 2007 at 9:33am
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Not a book but a very interesting video web site with loads of video interview of US vets telling of their war experiences. I spent 2 hours 'lost' in there! http://www.witness-to-war.org/content/view.php?g=s&c=N&a mp;v=184 Rather than black & white print, it's great to hear them tell their stories in their own words. It would be a great to see it done here.... ------------- Don Only a number, not even a name. How shall posterity hear of thy fame? |
Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 16 October 2007 at 9:33pm
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I don't think they are available on the web, but the Coastal Forces Heritage Trust has a good collection of video interviews with C.F. Vets available. Try their web site which you should be able to access through mtb102.com links. Richard.
------------- If it ain't broke don't fix it! |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 8:17pm
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IWM CF reading list; http://collections.iwm.org.uk/upload/pdf/Bk348.pdf - http://collections.iwm.org.uk/upload/pdf/Bk348.pdf |
Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 10:09am
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I see that John Lambert and Les Brown's Book on Corvettes is advertised on Amazon as being available in June? (plus a good saving if pre-ordered now). I will guess that this will be another 'bible' on the type - I wonder what happened to Volume 3 of Allied Coastal Forces? ------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator |
Posted By: marksaab
Date Posted: 26 March 2008 at 8:11pm
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Just got my latest Amazon delivery, "Gunboat Command" by Anthony Hichens, just had a quick flick thru, looks quite good, lots of excerpts from We Fought Them in Gunboats, nice pics but none of the captured E Boat episode, let you know how it reads! Mark ------------- Only yield when you must, never "give up the ship," but fight on to the last "with a stiff upper lip!" |
Posted By: BlueLancer
Date Posted: 22 December 2008 at 8:20pm
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Hi All,
My first post, I have have been fascinated by all the comments in the forums. I have a question can anybody recommend a really good book,that covers repairing double diagonal planking.
Yours aye
Steve ------------- keep the water born cavalry galloping |
Posted By: clive
Date Posted: 22 December 2008 at 9:49pm
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Hi Steve,
sorry for not answering your question but do you have a boat to repair, if so what is she?
welcome aboard.
Clive.. ------------- masbie something in the water. www.freewebs.com/masb32/ |
Posted By: BlueLancer
Date Posted: 23 December 2008 at 12:35pm
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Hi Clive,
The simple answer is no I don't have a boat yet.I hope to offer a home to a damsel in distress in the New Year.As knights go this ones charger is dark bay and the armour is a little rusty, but I will save a boat if I can. The request for info on planking stands as I like to research potential work as much as possible . There sems to be plenty of reference books on other forms of planking carvel, clinker, plywood etc.
------------- keep the water born cavalry galloping |
Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 23 December 2008 at 12:50pm
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Hi Blue Lancer,
Welcome aboard, indeed plenty of reference material about, and some current projects, HDML Medusa at Hythe, link on the BMPT links page and of course MTB 102 Trust who now run Newsons yard, also a link on the same page. Apart from usual advice re boats, especaily old wooden boats, which is DON'T, only kidding of course, plenty of good advice here and about.
JohnK
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Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 08 October 2010 at 11:20am
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The eagerly awaited Allied Torpedo Boats by Les Brown and John Lambert is now available, and it does not disappoint the British Vosper and Thornycroft MTB or US Higgins and Elco PT-Boat modeller and enthusiast. The high quality large hardcover book is in itself a joy to hold and browse and will sit proudly next to the best reference books on your shelf. The many high resolution photos are first rate printed on the high quality glossy paper, as are the numerous plans and drawings by John Lambert and Al Ross. The book starts with a good look at the inception of Coastal Forces craft in WWI and the slow development in the inter war years, with the massive personal contribution made by Hubert Scott-Paine being described in full. The WWII development is staged in order of the pennant number groups of each of the successive MTB batches and fully describes the evolution of the Vosper design including those built by other yards in the UK and the USA under licence, and also of many US lend-lease boats (but not including the ex Canadian Power Boat MTBs 332-343, the Higgins MTBs 419-423, or the JS White "Polish" MTBs 424-429. Several prototype boats are not mentioned either; MTBs 100,101,106,107,neither of the 108s, 109 or 539). It is stated that the British Power Boat Co 71.5ft MGB/MTB design is not to be included due to lack of space. One imagines co-auther John Lambert has Allied Coastal Forces of World War II vol. 3 - British Power Boat Co designs in mind, and does not want to repeat material about to be published in this new book, or perhaps this is just very wishful thinking. (Or possibly another ShipCraft volume concentrating on MGBs and their evolution into MTBs) either way it leaves the reader hanging, as previously so much is said about Hubert Scott-Paine and his pre-war designs and how essential they were to the whole Coastal Forces effort, then fails to mention George Selman's master design which was built in such great numbers and proved so successful. A minor niggle is that the book states simply that MTBs 258-316 were "built in America to drawings provided by Vosper", whereas these boats were built to various designs as follows;258 BPB 70ft ex PT9, 259-268 BPB (Elco built) 70ft ex PT10-19, 269-271 Higgins 81ft ex PT5-7, 273-274 Fischer 58ft ex PT3-4, 275-306 Vosper (licence built), 307-316 Elco 77ft ex PT49-58#. This is probably due to space restraints or overly vigorous editing. The development of the PT-Boat is outlined, from basic design to weaponry evolution and is of great interest as the yardstick against which the evolution of the British designs must be measured, having had the same starting point. The utimate PT-Boat, the mighty 80ft Elco, based on the design of Hubert Scott-Paine, is truly a force to be reckoned with in the later years with such a wide array of effective gun and rocket armament (and torpedo, once US torpedo performance was sorted). All available (and some no longer available) MTB and PT model kits are reviewed, with photos, providing an essential in-depth guide to what is available to the modeller. All the colour schemes and many good colour photos of the PT-Boats follow, then the technical chapters on methods and evolution of construction, armament and appearance of all the boats including yet more excellent detail photos and drawings. The similarity to Allied Coastal Forces of World War II vol. 2 cannot be overlooked, especially when contemplating the omission of the BPB MTBs. This previous book was subtitled "Vosper MTBs and US ELCOs", perhaps a similar subtitle would have benefitted the new book, which states on the back cover that all the most important types of (short) MTBs and PT Boats are covered. To sum up it has to be said the book is excellent, providing essential technical material to the modeller whilst informing the enthusiast and casual reader alike, it will surely draw from the latter group to add them to the former. Failing in my view only in what is omitted rather than in what is contained. If only it had been published a few years earlier my own Vosper MTB and PT-Boat models would have benefitted enormously! |
Posted By: mprints
Date Posted: 02 December 2010 at 4:51pm
I have just turned up a pencil drawing by my father Victor Mills of the MTB 539 engine room. It is an early sketch carried out while the boat design was still on the drawing board around 1945. I have now included it to my website page on 539 (P1602). It shows two of the three Packard 4M-2500 V12 petrol engines. The view is looking forward towards towards the bulkhead behind the fuel tank compartment. The ROTOL vee gearboxes reversed the drive to the triple props that woul dbe below the left of the illustration.
 http://www.mprints.co.uk - www.mprints.co.uk SARO MTB 539 (P1602) ------------- Dave Mills |
Posted By: ASR1255
Date Posted: 13 March 2011 at 9:47am
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I went to Newsons open day on saturday, i was made very welcome and shown around ZETA,HUMBER and SPITFIRE ,all very interesting stuff.
Before i left i had a look at a fantastic manual on the repair and servicing of the RAF 63ft PINNACE, it was produced by the air ministry,which has led me to ask is there such a manual for the earlier 60ft PINNACES of WW2 vintage and where would you start to try and find one? Any ideas any one? Many thanks steve ------------- SAVE EM ALL |
Posted By: Tim Deacon
Date Posted: 15 June 2012 at 10:39am
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....Continuing a thread left by 'Marksaab' on 7 May 2007....only just seen it!
Reference the book 'Midnight Trader'; a good read; I've just read it again. I'd be very interested to know if anyone has information about the time when 'Taifun' was on the River Hamble, after she appeared in the film 'The Ship That Died of Shame'; must have been around 1955/6. She was up for sale, and moored somewhere on the River Hamble, advertised by a Yacht Broker.....I've looked in old magazines of the time in the 'For Sale' adverts, but so far haven't found reference to 'an ex-J. Samuel White MTB...etc, etc'. There must be a copy of a mag somewhere with a 'For Sale' advert for the boat? I've searched high and low for any photos of the boat on the river at that time, with no luck.
I've found the articles in the 'People' Newspaper of the time, written by Hugh Edwards (before he published 'Midnight Trader') and they differ from the book in that he actually names the crew of the boat, including the crewman that drowned, when smuggling and the ship sinks.
Also, reference was made to the 'Motor Boat and Yachting Manual 1948' with an illustration of a White MTB (on pages 158/159, figs. 95/96) similar to 'Taifun'.
In fact the illustrations are of an earlier White design and not MTBs 424-429 (Polish S-5 to S-10). The Polish boats had a wheelhouse which was very flat f'rd and wider than the one illustrated. (Similar to the later Vosper design MTBs), and also had a 6pdr. QF gun on the foredeck and an oerlikon on the after deck, not a M/G in a 'dustbin'.
I've always understood that the six Polish boats were a 'White' design. Unfortunately there are few (if any) drawings of these particular boats. It also says in the text that 'they were level riding boats and did good work in the Channel BEFORE and after D-Day operations'....that can't be so as, according to the 'Admiralty Ship Cards', they were all launched around August 1944, so missed D-Day by a couple of months.
Being picky I know, but thougth I'd put the story right....the 'Devil being in the detail.....'.
Tim
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