GT Cargo Boats
Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: Merchant Navy
Forum Description: Discussion on relevant issues
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=427
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 4:20pm
Topic: GT Cargo Boats
Posted By: Pioneer
Subject: GT Cargo Boats
Date Posted: 06 October 2007 at 8:45pm
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I am wondering now whether there could be a 'Merchant Navy' title within this Forum - I'll ask the 'powers that be' - meanwhile have you any shots of your GT powered Cargo Boat 'Tramontana'?
------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator
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Replies:
Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 07 October 2007 at 10:45am
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I can,t remember taking a photo of her, but I have seen one of her somewhere, her name was "Rembrandt", she used "The French gas Turbine system" powered by gasifiers, I saw her again many years later when the system had been removed as it was to expensive to run( That is the other problem with G.T.s unless the taxpayer is picking up the fuel bill!!) and she had been retro fitted with a diesel. When she was built she did leave the shipyard with a small white elephant painted on the side. I wonder if I can get next weeks Lottery numbers off the joker who painted it? he's most probably dead by now. Without wondering off too far I had a look at that Website you mentiond, certainly one of "Frank's Facts" is not a "fact" at all, the "Cossack" did not find the "Altmark" it was 3 Lockheed Hudson's from an airfield in North Yorkshire called Thornaby (coastal command and home of the "Thornaby Bag") which found her hidden in Jossing, one of the Pilots flew low enough to read her name on the stern and then was disciplined for sending the Sit Rep in plain language!!, it was then the B.P. from "Cossack" boarded her.
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 October 2007 at 5:42pm
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now you know why I didn't fancy Tankers as well as the oil jetty's being miles from anywhere, I joined to see the World, the nearest I got to a Tanker was a 75,000tn O.B.O. whose No2 hold side collapsed and we were only in ballast!! I understand some of the modern Gas Tankers can run their engine/s off the surplus product they are carrying. Look forward to the M.N. Page
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Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 08 October 2007 at 8:09pm
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The gas is liquified and boils off so the gas is burnt as fuel. Also it is possible to run main engines on crude which gives a VLCC a hell of a range before it runs out.
Richard.
------------- If it ain't broke don't fix it!
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Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 12 October 2007 at 1:20pm
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A Merchant Navy page so soon. It only took the powers that be 50 years to learn that the MN was involved in the Battle of the Atlantic.
Thank you Ted,
Richard.
------------- If it ain't broke don't fix it!
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Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 12 October 2007 at 1:36pm
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Yes Richard - it has taken some while to get the MN properly recognised - hopefully this Forum will help generate some more interest and awareness. A book that I would recommend is "The Real Cruel Sea" by Richard Woodman ISBN 0 7195 6403 4
Gives some depth to the understanding of the Merchantmen's battle in the Atlantic 1939-43 - be warned, a 'heavy' read but well worth it in my opinion.
Ted
------------- Pioneer - Forum Moderator
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Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 19 October 2007 at 9:15pm
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This poem was written by an 18 year old who followed his father into the merchant service and had a hard time during the war years. I like it.
On all the seas of all the world, there passes to and fro,
where ghostly icebergs travel, and spicy trade winds blow,
a gaudy piece of bunting, a Royal ruddy rag,
the blossom of the ocean lanes, Great Britains merchant flag.
I am still proud to wear the Red Duster even on an ex navy craft.
Richard.
------------- If it ain't broke don't fix it!
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 23 October 2007 at 3:32pm
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Richard, if only our Government gave the subsidy's to our "Merchant Fleet that the Russian's gave to their "Merchant Fleet" and I use that term loosely as most people are aware that the Russians may have merchant ship's but they all belong/ed to the Soviet Navy (read Chapman Pincher!) we would have had a bigger slice of the World trade now, in Wartime being down the engineroom would be bad enough but knowing that it was the first hit on a torpedo strike takes courage especially on Tanker's where the only way was up, they deserved their Contracts which did not stop their pay when the ship usually disappeared except of course the "San Demetrio" and the "Ohio" wonderful stories of British seamanship and courage when their ship's did not disappear into the atmosphere and they got them to a Port to deliver their vital cargo.
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Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 8:59pm
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The San Demetrio film has some brilliant shots of reversing an old marine diesel. Most don't understand that you make the whole engine run backwards to go astern. Fiendish machines to ordinary folks and only understood by God and his disciples, the marine engineers.
Richard.
------------- If it ain't broke don't fix it!
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 25 October 2007 at 9:05pm
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Thinking about enginerooms I must find the time to put something together about Gas Turbine power as a lot of people seem to think the gas turbine was as a result of the Whittle engine but of course the "Turbinia" was gas turbine powered. Steam is an ouderless colourless gas. The jet engine was/is another way of powering a turbine as were gasifiers which the Germans used as compressors on submarines they don't have a crankshaft!!
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Posted By: mike weller
Date Posted: 06 November 2007 at 2:31pm
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I saw the film 'San Demitrio-London' when I was a kid. After that all I ever wanted to do was go to sea in tankers. My wish came true, ended up with BTC!
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Posted By: mike weller
Date Posted: 06 November 2007 at 2:35pm
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Don't forget the T2 tankers, half their main propulsion unit was a steam turbine.
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 06 November 2007 at 4:27pm
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Hello Mike and welcome to you, did you serve on T2's and if you did had their gun tubs been removed? not a Tanker man myself, certainly not after watching San Demtrio and other War films!!
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Posted By: mike weller
Date Posted: 06 November 2007 at 7:49pm
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Hello tramontana, and thanks for the welcome.
Yes I was on the SMOKY HILL, '50/51, and the RED BANK, '56/57.
Great ships with unheard of amenities for anyone used to British ships. The gun tubs were long gone before my time. After my MN service, I spent some time in the RNXS. We did our training at HMS VERNON, Portsmouth in Inshore Minesweepers of the HAM class, PORTISHAM in my case. There does not seem to be any interest in these little ships on this website and I wonder why?
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 November 2007 at 6:51pm
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Mike, Ham's have popped up now and again but best source of info on Ham's, Loyal's and patrol vessels is W.S.S. small craft group, if you are not a member let me know and I will p.m. you with contact info. Apparently there is still a T2 being used for storage at the southern end of the Suez Canal, I was on a private steam yacht around 4 weeks ago she had 2 quadriple expansion engines they were smaller versions of liberty ship engines, and were built before W.W.2 by a locomotive company, her original boilers had been replaced by oil fired fully automatic square, yes square boilers. She was built for the Dodge family (Dodge Motors) had War Service, post war she went downhill, now a luxury yacht with a 3/4 Steinway piano in the lounge and a superbly kept engineroom with that unique smell that brings tears to the eyes of old steam men
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 08 November 2007 at 7:28pm
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Not sure if I mentioned this before, but I did one weekend "tour" on a HAM many moons ago with Chatham RNXS, fantastic old world standard of build, brass speaking tubes etc and plenty of wood. Above yacht sounds great, you can't beat the smell of steam!,
JohnK
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 November 2007 at 8:24pm
johnk, and the quick drying facility of the "fiddley tops" I hope the Ham had plenty of ballast in to replace her missing pulse genny!!like Tons they rolled very badly due to their shallow draught, as you say good old fashioned British design and engineering.
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Posted By: mike weller
Date Posted: 09 November 2007 at 11:40am
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While I was doing my RNXS training , we had trips up to Chatham and around the Isle of Wight. The IoW trip was in a Force 9. Before we set out some navy bod told us he thought it was a bit rough, to which our Skipper, Commander Hill (he of the Royal Yacht) replied, "what do you think we are, a bunch of bloody amateurs?". to which there was no reply. So off we went, it was the first and only time that I have ever been seasick.
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 09 November 2007 at 2:14pm
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Pagham is still about on the West Coast of Scotland although I understand she has been a Submarine once or twice so her Paxmans may be shot, still a few others around in various states of repair, small craft group magazine is an excellent publication, well put together by the Bros' and well worth the membership fee.
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Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 09 November 2007 at 3:15pm
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Mike
Portisham now;
http://www.boat-list.com/boatdetailpopup.asp?btsrefno=5193896&callpage=externalbrokerlist - http://www.boat-list.com/boatdetailpopup.asp?btsrefno=519389 6&callpage=externalbrokerlist
For more Ham (and Ley) class info suggest tca2000 website, e-mail the webmaster of the site with your questions he is a knowledgeable chap.
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Posted By: Magic Fingers
Date Posted: 09 November 2007 at 8:24pm
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Looks like a part time navy page is needed as well.
Richard.
------------- If it ain't broke don't fix it!
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 09 November 2007 at 9:37pm
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Indeed, all this talk of RNXS! my time was very short with them but interesting and enjoyable, on my weekend on the HAM we went to anchor and I had to miss the fish and chips lunch due to not feeling to good! but was fine for the rest of the trip!. In fact spent the whole second day in the galley preparing a roast dinner for the company at the insisitance of the CO, we left harbour and returned with myself and my oppo not seeing any of the trip. He was in fact a qualified ferry skipper but was starting at the bottom, though he could have skppered the craft and was probabley better qualified than most of the guys. Interesting pics of Pagham, still very much as origional from the out side it would seem.
JohnK
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 10 November 2007 at 12:56pm
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As you say every body no matter what rank they were in a previous occupation started at the bottom with the R.N.X.S. including an ex Cunard Master who had a young R.N. Officer showing him what to do on the Plot until someone told him who the R.N.X.S. "novice" was, which was a story I was told by an R.N.X.S. member who I came across during S.T.U.F.T. duties in 1982.
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Posted By: mike weller
Date Posted: 10 November 2007 at 2:12pm
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On PORTISHAM, we had a real mix of people. Lots of soldiers, including a retired colonel and an ex private who had been busted down from sergeant a couple of times. The interaction between these two was quite amusing.
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 10 November 2007 at 3:23pm
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Mike, some of the people on the Foreign Cargo Ships I was on were also a real mix the ships were either United Nations or floating Foreign Legions usually with the Skipper and myself the only British on board! There was no uniform code and the master only wore his uniform jacket when the pilot was on board, or his favourite Trilby/flat cap usually a black leather one, wearing a uniform on board (unlike British Ships) was not regulation we all new each other!! it was only when strangers came aboard that some form of Rank was shown, in my case white overalls but they were quickly changed to the more functional blue when they left the ship
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 10 November 2007 at 4:18pm
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Getting back to the lead subject and the G.T. powered Cargo Boat. In todays world Gas Turbine powered ships usually means a converted jet engine powering a turbine for propulsion, over 40 years ago this version was being used by fast Service craft but not used on Merchant ships as far as I am aware. At around that time Gas Turbines were going to be THE power source of the future whether it be boats, cars(Rover), buses and trains, with this in mind and wanting to get as many types of engineroom under my belt I signed on a vessel called "Rembrandt" which was the first (and the only apparently) purpose built Gas Turbine powered cargo ship using the "French System" so called because a French ship had been fitted with a similiar system some years before, I have located a photo of her but it is not one of mine and in these days of COPYRIGHT I am not sure as to whether I should download it!! so the following is from memory and some notes I have dug out which I made at the time. The "French System" of powering the Turbine was by means of Gasifiers also known as Free piston, opposed piston or air cushion return of which we had five of them, four in use and one spare, from my notes the turbine was basically a converted steam turbine which was non reversing and had double reduction gearbox driving the propshaft which was fitted with a controllable pitch propellor. The gas pressure to the turbine was 44psi and the normal output was 4,000 shp @ 110 rpm, temperature 860 degrees F. Her top speed was supposed to be around 13knts, however like most boats it depended on a lot of the right factors all coming together at the same time! the weight saving on this system was apparently around 400tns. She was all aft accomodation nicely appointed when I was on board. How did she run? that is for another episode!
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 11 November 2007 at 3:02am
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Indeed, all good stuff re the GT boats and RNXS, I recall our lot were also a mixed bunch apart from my ferry capitan friend, I left a year or so before disbandment, a pity, some continue as the Maritime Volunteer Service I believe.
Johnk
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Posted By: johnk
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 7:45am
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Also, in current Ship's Monthly, great article on the post war German developement of the diesel electric submarine touched on before, very interesting, at least I think so, they raised some wartime vessels to re use and evaluate, and the article talks about how advanced thier designs were and how everyone post war wanted them.
JohnK
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Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 31 December 2007 at 4:05pm
There is some interesting reading in the latest "Ships Monthly" Jan 2008 regarding the mess left by the Prescott administration in his ill thought out rush to get more ships on the English register "Letter of the Month", as I have said in another forum page the devil is in the detail (I learnt that very early on when agreeing a Contract as well as making sure it was all down in writing!!), it appears that Prescott had his mind on other things and has left his former shipmate's in the lurch. The other good piece of work is an article about "Big ships, small crews and reflects my views previously written on my time on the "Har Addir" where the engineroom was unmanned at night and relied on "Bridge Monitoring" the problem is that if the main engine shuts down the bridge will try to start it before ringing the alarm bells in the Engineers cabins by the time the Engineer's get down there a little problem has become a large problem, I personally still believe that the "Derbyshire" lost power at night, broached, the cargo shifted and she rolled over before they could do anything as she also had an unmanned engine-room at night. Sinking by the method that was published for me would be a slow affair and they would have hit the emergency distress button when she started to go Bow down as there is still a lot of bouyancy in her empty ballast and hopper/saddle tanks still left intact along the hull until they imploded at depth leaving a shattered mess on the sea-floor, whereas I personally feel that it all happened very quickly and the fault lies with the Company relying to much on an automatic system when it is no substitute for the "Mark 1 Eyeball" of an Engineer down below, that's why I mainly stuck to Steam for as long as I could!! Happy New Year and Take Care
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