MTB-424

Printed From: BMPT Forum
Category: Boats (In alphabetical order)
Forum Name: Motor Torpedo Boats
Forum Description: Discussion on Motor Torpedo Boats
URL: http://www.bmpt.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=444
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 5:17pm

Topic: MTB-424

Posted By: dldldl
Subject: MTB-424
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 11:00am

When I try to tally the British MTBs, I find two MTB-424: one was a 73-Foot White, built in 1944 and delivered to the Polish Navy, the other was the ex-PT-94, a US built boat delivered to the Royal Navy in 1943.
Has anyone an explanation for this apparent incoherence ?

Replies:

Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 1:03pm

MTBs;

1-12, 14-19 British Power Boat 60ft
           20-23 Vosper 70ft flush deck 3 sold to Rumania
           24-25, 28 Thornycroft 72 ft Isottas later Packards
           26-27 Thornycroft 55ft CMB type ex Chinese interned at HK
           29-30 C&N Vosper type
           31-40 Vosper 70ft narrow
           41-48 White 70ft flush deck
           49-56 Thornycroft 75.5ft later RASC Meggido, Menin, Messines, Marne, Mons, Montauban,                           Morval, Nablus.
           57-66 Vosper
           67-68 Thornycroft 55ft CMB type
           69-70 Vosper ex Greek order
           71-72 60ft Vosper ex Norwegian order
           73-98 Vosper (inc 2 x 75)
           100 ex MMS.51 British Power Boat proto
           101 White proto suspended 1940-hydrofoil fell off?
           102 Vosper proto later RASC Vimy
           103 Vosper proto stepped hull later CT05 with Packards x 2
           104-107 Thornycroft protos (?)
           108 Vosper proto destroyed on slips (& Meulan MTB 108 later MAC7)
           109 McGruer proto
           201-212 White 72ft Vosper design with Hall-Scotts later Sterlings
           213-217 Thornycroft 55ft CMB type
           218-221 narrow 70ft Vosper ex Greece order
           222-228 McClean 72ft Vosper
           229-231 McGruer Vospers
           232-235 Berthon Vospers
           236-239 C&N Vospers
           240-241 M Giles Vospers
           242-245 Vosper designs
           246-257 White Vospers type flush decks
           258 BPB 70ft ex PT9
           259-268 Elco 70ft ex PT10-19
           269-271 Higgins 81ft ex PT5-7
           273-274 Fischer 58ft ex PT3-4
           275-306 Vosper (USA)
           307-326 Elco 77ft ex PT49-58
           327-331 Thornycroft 55ft CMB type
           332-343 70ft Canadian Power Boat ex Canadian MTBs
           344-346 Thornycroft
           347-362 Vosper 70ft
           363-378 Vosper (USA)
           379, 380-395 Vosper 73ft type 1
           396-411 Vosper (USA)
           412-418 British Power Boat
           419-423 Higgins 78ft ex PT88-94 series
           424-429 White (the Polish boats)
           430-432,434-500, 502-509, 519-522 British Power Boat 71.5ft (ex MGBs up to 457)
           433 ex MGB46 ex Dutch TM51 BPB 70ft
           523-537 Vosper 73ft type 2
           538 (later 1601) prototype for Brave hull form Vosper
           539 (later 1602) Saunders Roe (Aluminium Dark Class prototype)
           601-800 Fairmile "D"
           5001-5029 Fairmile "D" mod.

Posted By: dldldl
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 5:28pm

I fear that this list is wrong:
"419-423 Higgins 78ft ex PT88-94 series": there is one PT more than there are MTB.
Would you have the same list for the MGBs ?

Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 5:55pm

Yes, it appears US PTs 88 and 90-94 were transferred to the RN (89 went to the USSR) and as 6 boats need more than 5 pennant numbers you must be right. Let's see if someone comes up with the answer!

Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 6:40pm

P.T. 93 was converted into a target towing boat when it was transferred

Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 7:30pm

Hi Tramontana, Have you the answer regarding the two MTB 424's though, as I now agree with dldldl there does seem to have been two different boats with this same pennant number, the JS White which later became Polish S-5 and the Higgins ex PT 94!

Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 02 November 2007 at 10:42pm

Hello Christian, from what I read the White boats were given the pennant numbers 424-429 but ON COMPLETION were given their Polish numbers, which means to me that they never actually took up their R.N. numbers with the Fleet and left them vacant for other use. Looking at the Higgins boats 419-423 it seems very co-incidental that they happen to have the numbers immediatly before and 94 was the last boat and 424 the first number not taken up by the White boats.

Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 03 November 2007 at 9:13am

Hi Tramontana, Could be, 'cept the White MTBs did have the RN designations to start with;

Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 5:00pm

Hello Christian, only whilst on the stocks apparently, however I may have found the "missing" boat it appears that a Higgins PT 198 was also transferred in 1943 along with the others previously mentioned and like PT93 was converted to Target Towing, have you any info on her or as to whether she had an R.N. number issued, I am sure she must have had?

Posted By: dldldl
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 5:17pm

I think the answer to your question is already on the forum. See http://www.bmpt.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33 - http://www.bmpt.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33 .

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Posted By: dldldl
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 6:23pm

The link suggests that RPT-9 (PT-93), RPT-11 (PT-197) and RPT-12 (PT-198) didn't become MTBs, so that there would be no double MTB-424. The bemol being that the fate of PT-197 is unkown

Posted By: tramontana
Date Posted: 08 November 2007 at 7:40pm

I have a photo of M.T.B. 422 ex P.T 92 in full guise complete with 40mm fitted aft, I would think that they would have all been sent over complete and the R.N. would convert them when required with British target towing equipment for uniformity reason's but of course that is my own view as I have not read or seen anything different although I do know that the R.N. did give M.G.B.'s M.T.B. numbers even though they never had torpedo tubes fitted which complicates things a bit!!

Posted By: gordonrasmith
Date Posted: 21 September 2010 at 5:34pm

Royal Navy CT17 formally US PT 198

These are a few scans of my Father in Law Harold Phillips when in the Navy during 1944.

CT-17 was built by the US as a Higgins PT-198 in 23 January 1943 and transferred to Royal Navy in April 1943 as a Controlled Target Boat, basically a torpedo boat converted to target towing vessels, used, I think, for the RAF to practice firing at a high speed target at sea, it was returned in August 1946 and sold to Republic of the Philippines in 3 September 1946.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonrasmith/sets/72157622552520655/with/4058019200/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonrasmith/sets/72157622552520655/with/4058019200/

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